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Moneyball Comes to Cleveland

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You can talk all your analytics you want but luck is luck and we havent got any kind of it.

It all starts with hitting on those top 3-4 picks, with at least 2 future game changers. Our last game changer drafted was Haden. Thats so fucking sad and it makes me want to headbutt a knife.

These past drafts were so unbelievably bad i dont even know how we still care about this team but yet we do. I mean this team is basically starting with 2 building blocks, everyone else are question marks.

It would of been nice if Shelton was good as everyone was saying on this board before and after draft. Id count him as a wonderful foundation but he sucked. I seen nothing different compared to John Hughes on a pro level. Just difference in draft position.

This whole team is literally question marks. I hope this idea is a 5 year plan at worst. Stick with something for once.

I think part of our issues on defense this year were on the coaching and player development end. I think we'll be a lot better next year if we can just find a competent coordinator. There was no reason our defense should have been one of the worst in the league with the talent we have on that end. I don't think we're at the elite spectrum talent-wise, but we're also not in the fucking bargain bin like they looked.
 
I think part of our issues on defense this year were on the coaching and player development end. I think we'll be a lot better next year if we can just find a competent coordinator. There was no reason our defense should have been one of the worst in the league with the talent we have on that end. I don't think we're at the elite spectrum talent-wise, but we're also not in the fucking bargain bin like they looked.

completely agree. the only explanation of going from a top 15 defense to the worst in the league in one season is schematic.

even the players were on record to the media saying that the scheme was garbage.
 
Geez. Jigo is absolutely killing it this thread.

Bravo my friend. Keep riding the baseball guy thing and Iron Shiek videos and I'll be liking just about everything you post.
 
Geez. Jigo is absolutely killing it this thread.

Bravo my friend. Keep riding the baseball guy thing and Iron Shiek videos and I'll be liking just about everything you post.

Thanks. Was really proud of my work today.

I owe a lot of people a lot of things due to wasting that amount of time in here, so I'll be up late.

If anything else changes, I'll seize on it.

@Chardon @QuadrupleDouble @Deezus
 
When will the term "hot take," be done?

Until people stop rifling them out left & right, I think the term is staying. You've got like 6 in here today. :chuckle:

Nobody wants to utter, "off the cuff and based off little info take" when they can shorten it. And there's my hot take on hot takes.

By the way... When does a take cease to be hot? Like, what level of requisite knowledge must one have to make their takes sizzle less? Is there a metric for this? PFF? Sash? DerPodesta?
 
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Until people stop rifling them out left & right, I think the term is staying. You've got like 6 in here today. :chuckle:

Nobody wants to utter, "off the cuff and based off little info take" when they can shorten it. And there's my hot take on hot takes.

By the way... When does a take cease to be hot? Like, what level of requisite knowledge must one have to make their takes sizzle less? Is there a metric for this? PFF? Sash? DerPodesta?


This take was rather cold
 
It's a massively big change like hiring a koala to babysit your human toddler after three consecutive kangaroos let the kid escape from the house.

Yeah, I've been there, my friend. And then two of the three returned to my place of work for revenge.

Hope it pans out differently for the Browns.
 

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Does Paul DePodesta's experience as a football player for Harvard make him a "football guy" at all?

Pretty interesting article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...d-the-radical-changes-of-the-cleveland-browns

The rebuild: Cleveland Browns make radical changes

  • By Conor Orr
When Baltimore Ravens president Dick Cass heard the Cleveland Browns promoted Sashi Brown to vice president of football operations, his immediate reaction was not competitive curiosity regarding the division rival's massive -- and unorthodox -- maneuver, one of several Cleveland would make over the coming days.

It was pride.

Cass was the head of a massive Washington D.C. law firm, Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr when Brown first joined as an associate out of Harvard Law School in 2002. The firm, where Cass handled Jerry Jones' purchase of the Dallas Cowboys, offered brilliant minds the opportunity to gravitate toward the intersection of law and professional sports. Brown showed promise in the field right away, and Cass did not hesitate to recommend him for a job with the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2005.

"He's always had good judgement," Cass told Around The NFL on Tuesday. "He's easy to get along with and he's a consensus builder. Good temperament. Doesn't fly off the handle. He's well-suited for the Browns' job, I think -- all of those qualities will serve him well."

Most importantly, as Brown prepares to run a Cleveland team that also hired former Mets executive Paul DePodesta to be their chief strategy officer, Cass sees a quality in Brown that will serve him extraordinarily well.

"Sashi is smart," Cass said. "So he knows what he doesn't know."

In that spirit, Around The NFL spoke to several executives either directly informed of the Browns' revamped power structure, or rival executives with intimate knowledge of the team's plans to help parse a week of change in Cleveland. While many are picturing Brown and DePodesta assembling a sequel to Moneyball, a book on the 2002 Oakland Athletics about the infusion of sabermetrics and analytics in baseball which featured DePodesta as a central character, the truth is slightly less complex. Coaches won't be scrolling through Pro Football Focus before drafting a player. Scouts won't be whipping out pocket calculators at the combine.

"This model averts a lot of the real trouble that festers inside organizations," one NFC executive said. "It's not like these guys are going to be calling plays. It's different, but it could work."

ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE

First off, how will this work? According to a person briefed on the team's plans, here's the Browns' power structure: DePodesta and Brown are considered "one and one," or equals. They will both work directly under owner Jimmy Haslam and report to him. The team's new head coach also will report to Haslam. Once hired, the personnel director will report to Brown.

Some rival executives have lampooned Brown's position and have made some valid points against it. Since Brown has control of the 53-man roster, a team can turn down any request the Browns make to interview one of their assistants. In theory, this would make a pool of eager candidates relatively shallow and has more than likely prevented the Browns from lining up certain scouts and evaluators.

This could put the Browns at a disadvantage heading into their third straight season with two picks in the top 32, but the previous regime's setup didn't help on draft weekend, either. Between 2014-15, the team selected Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Danny Shelton and Cam Erving in the first round.

Above all else, the move seems to be considerate of recent history in Cleveland and meant to fix bigger problems.

Consider the following, an amalgamation of a few scenarios posed by those familiar with the decision:

Struggling teams often have tension between their coach and general manager. And those teams, especially ones where an owner is not in the building every day like Haslam, consistently struggle to win because the tension never goes away. Small problems create bigger problems. Coaches end up making veiled comments to the media about the roster's lack of talent. General managers disguise comments about players being out of position. Decisions don't really become decisions without motive.

Imagine, then, that Brown's job is to be the liaison in the building every day, making sure the head coach and general manager are on the same page both publicly and privately. Brown's calm and affable demeanor could be well-suited for his role, and his power will prevent a personnel czar from simply stacking the roster as they see fit. Will Brown really be picking the players on the roster, or has he simply been given the opportunity and power to settle a dispute when there is one?

For years, Brown thrived in a corporate environment with far more money -- and far, far larger egos -- at stake and earned a reputation as a problem solver. Football is often described as a world unto its own, but the basic issues of power and respect rarely change.

A BASEBALL MAN?

It is true that DePodesta was Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane's statistical muse during their unexpected playoff runs in the early 2000s. DePodesta helped identify devalued players with overlooked attributes and built a winner.

And while the immediate assumption is that he will revamp the club's analytics department -- which they already have -- there are far more valuable and important matters at hand, especially considering that the NFL is a salary-cap league. Teams are already on an even financial platform.

"Paul completely reorganized the Mets scouting and player development functions and had an extraordinary impact in both areas," Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said in a statement to reporters Tuesday. "But he was also very directly involved in our trade and free agent acquisitions. His commitment to excellence and his passion for innovation will be missed by the Mets and all of baseball. I wish him well with the Browns."

After the analytics swoon in baseball, every club for better or worse employed some version of what the Athletics were doing. This eventually caused a situation where the advantages were less significant for the teams that were already ahead of the curve.

What DePodesta, a former football player at Harvard, does well is look at things from a bird's eye view. When he started working under Alderson with the Mets, he aided the team's infrastructure building process and helped synchronize all facets of the organization.

On some levels, this is called "design thinking," and it has helped countless teams improve everything from morale to player development. Rather than simply being labeled as a former baseball executive, DePodesta is more like a CEO that has been brought in to aid a fledgling company.

"We are fortunate to bring in Paul, an extremely talented, highly respected sports executive who will add a critical dimension to our front office," Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said. "His approach and ambition to find the best pathways for organizational success transcend one specific sport and his experience as a high level sports executive make him a terrific addition to the Cleveland Browns.

DePodesta's fingerprints will be behind the scenes. He will check in with the diet and nutrition department regularly to see if what they are doing harmonizes with the activities players are doing on the field. He will analyze salary cap numbers to see if there is a more efficient way to structure deals or spend on free agents. Like Brown, who will aid in the synchronicity of coaching and scouting, DePodesta will do so for the entire organization.

"Paul has invaluable experience in management and leadership with a number of highly successful sports teams," Brown said in a statement. "His ability to create better processes and systems throughout organizations, his use of data as a tool to produce better outcomes, and his relentless focus on looking for innovative ways to create more success will be a strong asset as we look to be as comprehensive as possible in our decision making."

WILL IT WORK?

The Browns now have our attention, even if it is misdirected. On Tuesday, suspended wide receiverJosh Gordon tweeted that he loved the movie Moneyball. Visions of a plucky fourth-string wide receiver no one thought to unearth at Southwestern Michigan danced through our heads. More than likely, this will not happen.

The common response from evaluators and executives asked about the moves fell into three categories: "What on Earth?" "Well, if everything else fails, might as well..." and "This is brilliant." Cleveland hopes it is the latter.

Is this a last-ditch effort of an owner who has already fired too many coaches and general managers to be taken seriously? Is it the sign of a man who has employed a lot of smart non-football people, and those people have finally taken over? Or is it the start of something much more significant; a way for teams to finally compartmentalize the rapidly increasing amounts of data, analytics, talent, personalities, finances, nutrition, infrastructure and sports science that have only been maximized on an individual level?

Most importantly, is it a move that can save football in Cleveland?
 
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Seriously though, if this doesn't work our next call better be Jerry Colangelo.
 
You can talk all your analytics you want but luck is luck and we havent got any kind of it.

It all starts with hitting on those top 3-4 picks, with at least 2 future game changers. Our last game changer drafted was Haden. Thats so fucking sad and it makes me want to headbutt a knife.

These past drafts were so unbelievably bad i dont even know how we still care about this team but yet we do. I mean this team is basically starting with 2 building blocks, everyone else are question marks.

It would of been nice if Shelton was good as everyone was saying on this board before and after draft. Id count him as a wonderful foundation but he sucked. I seen nothing different compared to John Hughes on a pro level. Just difference in draft position.

This whole team is literally question marks. I hope this idea is a 5 year plan at worst. Stick with something for once.

I disagree we have:

Guard: Bitonio
TE: Big play Ger
K: Coons
Whoever the long snapper is
Armonty Bryant
Nate orchard
Duke

FA's: Schwartz if retained (he's developed into his role)
Benjamin if retained


We also still have guys with question marks who may or may not pan out:

Shelton
Erving
Gilbert (times ticking hard on him though)
Gordon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk at your local pub.
 
Please man, Coons is not a kicker we hold on too. I dont want to watch a competitive Browns game and it comes down to a missed 50 yard FG.

Youre reaching just to back up a few players. I think they all could be replaced. Barnidge i guess could be a player every team would want, but I cannot say that for the rest of them.

This past scheme really got me down on this current talent.
 

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