Pat Riley Karma Safari / DWade to sign with Chicago

[Walter White]

So if we do a S&T for Wade, Durant, or anyone for that matter, we are locked into having to be at about $112 million hard cap(also known as the luxury tax apron, set $4 million above the luxury tax line which is $108 million this year). And that figure would have to be achieved immediately to execute the S&T, we couldn't do the deal be way over that number and then slowly unload contracts.

If we got Wade for roughly 11 million per year, the combined salaries of LBJ, KI, KL, TT, Wade, and one of Channing or Shump would be close to 112 right there. You'd have to trade one of Channing or Shump, plus renounce the cap holds and rights to Delly, JR, and Moz.

Now, doing something that drastic would be worth it for Durant.
But for 34 year old Dwayne Wade?

And yes, there are iterations of the Wade scenario you could work around(ie. trade Shump and Frye to cap space teams and keep JR, etc) but you would still be locked in to about $112 million(the luxury tax apron) and would essentially have a 6 man team + minimum salary guys filling out the roster.

So while it is absolutely possible, one has to question if it would be worthwhile for Dwayne Wade. And keep in mind, this is a guy who in a compromise took $20 million this past season and had an excellent season on the court. So even getting him down to $11 million per year would be quite a feat given that there will likely be teams willing to go much higher. Now would those teams have his best friend LBJ and the best shot at a title? No. But pride still comes in to play, so I'm just not sure this would work on either end.

Honest question, so this is how it would be for anyone we trade for the TPE then since it is close to 10 million? We would have to move heaven and earth even for a dude like Lance Stephenson if we wanted to use the TPE and absorb his salary theoretically? Or is it different because it isn't a sign and trade?

 

[MirORich]

Honest question, so this is how it would be for anyone we trade for the TPE then since it is close to 10 million? We would have to move heaven and earth even for a dude like Lance Stephenson if we wanted to use the TPE and absorb his salary theoretically? Or is it different because it isn't a sign and trade?

No, if we used the Trade Exception coupled with an actual asset to take back an existing contract like Lances*, this hard cap condition does not apply.

*(the scenario @BimboColesHair and @gourimoko were talking about would have Memphis pick up Lances team option and then deal him to us for a second round pick or cash while we absorb him into our TPE. Because his option would be picked up, he would have never become a FA and therefore there would be no S&T necessary)

The two main things that trigger a the hard cap at the luxury tax apron is 1. using the full non taxpayer Mid Level Exception in FA and 2. executing a S&T to bring in a player who was a free agent.

Trading for players already under contract or using the smaller taxpayer MLE and a few other exceptions doers not invoke the hard cap.

 

[gourimoko]

So if we do a S&T for Wade, Durant, or anyone for that matter, we are locked into having to be at about $112 million hard cap(also known as the luxury tax apron, set $4 million above the luxury tax line which is $108 million this year). And that figure would have to be achieved immediately to execute the S&T, we couldn't do the deal be way over that number and then slowly unload contracts.

If we got Wade for roughly 11 million per year, the combined salaries of LBJ, KI, KL, TT, Wade, and one of Channing or Shump would be close to 112 right there. You'd have to trade one of Channing or Shump, plus renounce the cap holds and rights to Delly, JR, and Moz.

Now, doing something that drastic would be worth it for Durant.
But for 34 year old Dwayne Wade?

And yes, there are iterations of the Wade scenario you could work around(ie. trade Shump and Frye to cap space teams and keep JR, etc) but you would still be locked in to about $112 million(the luxury tax apron) and would essentially have a 6 man team + minimum salary guys filling out the roster.

So while it is absolutely possible, one has to question if it would be worthwhile for Dwayne Wade. And keep in mind, this is a guy who in a compromise took $20 million this past season and had an excellent season on the court. So even getting him down to $11 million per year would be quite a feat given that there will likely be teams willing to go much higher. Now would those teams have his best friend LBJ and the best shot at a title? No. But pride still comes in to play, so I'm just not sure this would work on either end.

Great post @MirORich , just wanted to offer you one bit of info; the apron is now set at $117M with the $94M cap. Which makes it a bit easier to do.

As @KI4MVP pointed out, Cavs have $124M in cap holds, and we know James will take ~$4M less than his max hold, so that means Cavs total holds are slightly less than $120M with the apron at slightly higher than $117M, for a difference of around $3M.

So with the increased cap, it's a lot easier to envision the Cavs pulling off a S&T this year.

 

[Snarly]

Great post @MirORich , just wanted to offer you one bit of info; the apron is now set at $117M with the $94M cap. Which makes it a bit easier to do.

As @KI4MVP pointed out, Cavs have $124M in cap holds, and we know James will take ~$3M less than his max hold, so that means Cavs total holds are slightly less than $121M with the apron at slightly higher than $117M, for a difference of around $4M.

So with the increased cap, it's a lot easier to envision the Cavs pulling off a S&T this year.

Also this is the reason why I heard we may get Wade. However why would Miami do a S&T with us? Otherwise we have the MLE and like 3 million in cap space. So yeah we could lure a role player but Wade would never come for the MLE unless he feels he wants another ring and to repay LeBron.

My question can we use the main new TPE in a sign and trade to get a wade? I know we have a TPE upwards of ten million I think but if my mind forgot we have it till the trade deadline right? So yeah in a way with the exploding cap the Cavs are not looking to trade core pieces but add from elsewhere. Wade could be had on a cheap two year deal if he so chose. Interesting off season ahead.

 

[Triple-S]

Wade would be terrific to have on the roster.

I hated him during the Lebron-Heat years but I really respected how he and Bosh both handled LeBron coming back home here.

I think he'd have a BLAST playing up here with LeBron, Kyrie, JR, Love, and TT.

May as well too, not like he's going to have very many more chances to get some rings down in Miami.

unsure if he'll leave Miami considering the loyalty factor, plus Cleveland winters, but you know, dare to dream, right?

 

[gourimoko]

Also this is the reason why I heard we may get Wade. However why would Miami do a S&T with us? Otherwise we have the MLE and like 3 million in cap space. So yeah we could lure a role player but Wade would never come for the MLE unless he feels he wants another ring and to repay LeBron.

The only way Wade gets traded to Cleveland is if he forces the issue. Heat aren't going to just trade him; but if he goes full court press, like he started to do last year, I think you could see the Cavs and Heat work something out.

Otherwise, yeah, I think he'd walk to the highest bidder.

Wade's not coming for the MLE. Folks should forget that; unless.. Wade and James work something out under the table using their business arrangements, like Blaze Pizza or something.

My question can we use the main new TPE in a sign and trade to get a wade? I know we have a TPE upwards of ten million I think but if my mind forgot we have it till the trade deadline right? So yeah in a way with the exploding cap the Cavs are not looking to trade core pieces but add from elsewhere. Wade could be had on a cheap two year deal if he so chose. Interesting off season ahead.

We can use the TPE in a sign-and-trade yes.

You'd more than likely see the Cavs offer him a 3-4 year deal, rather than a cheap two year deal.

 

[Snarly]

The only way Wade gets traded to Cleveland is if he forces the issue. Heat aren't going to just trade him; but if he goes full court press, like he started to do last year, I think you could see the Cavs and Heat work something out.

Otherwise, yeah, I think he'd walk to the highest bidder.

Wade's not coming for the MLE. Folks should forget that; unless.. Wade and James work something out under the table using their business arrangements, like Blaze Pizza or something.



We can use the TPE in a sign-and-trade yes.

You'd more than likely see the Cavs offer him a 3-4 year deal, rather than a cheap two year deal.

I wonder what they would... Is this Wade worth three more years and here in cold weather? I think the and thanks for the TPE closure. I have feel what else can we get for it? Yeah Wade would have to force his way here and the Heat gets the money to spend on a FA like a Durant right? So if true the Heat might do it for that cap and money to sign a top notch FA? They can not as they stand now sing anyone big unless they trade a high salary?

 

[gourimoko]

I wonder what they would... Is this Wade worth three more years and here in cold weather? I think the and thanks for the TPE closure. I have feel what else can we get for it?

The only other name that's come up is Lance Stephenson... That's what myself, @BimboColesHair and now Brian Windhorst have been pimping for about a week now.

Yeah Wade would have to force his way here and the Heat gets the money to spend on a FA like a Durant right?

Yes, essentially; but Durant wouldn't go to the Heat if Wade was leaving, since Wade would only leave if the Heat had no shot at contention.

So if true the Heat might do it for that cap and money to sign a top notch FA?

I don't think so, but it is possible.

Heat have $42M in cap space.

If they sign Whiteside to the max, they'll have $20M left. That's not enough for a top notch free agent.

If they lose Whiteside, and Johnson and Deng walk; they'll have a vacant roster. That's when I think you'll see Wade have an argument that the Heat should do for him what the Bulls did for Derrick Rose.

They can not as they stand now sing anyone big unless they trade a high salary?

They have max cap room and then some.. But they cannot sign two big free agents simultaneously, no. And if they re-sign Whiteside, it basically leaves only enough room for Wade, and that's it.

 

[Triple-S]

The thing that is nice about this is...unlike in years past with the Cavs? We have a legitimate solid sales pitch.

During LeBron's first run here? Damn impossible to sell quality free agents on Cleveland. LeBron wasn't a guaranteed commodity during his early years, and during his later years here? Everyone knew he was gone. (We were very much in denial at the time, but who could blame us).

2nd go around? A little easier, but you looked at guys like TT, and Kyrie? You didn't see two proven quality players.

This finals changed that. The Cavs have pieces in places where they have ability to contend for quite a few years, and guys like the aforementioned Kyrie? PROVEN COMMODITY. That shot in Game 7 and his 41 point game in Game 5 pretty much quieted any doubt in regards to his abilities.

Not to mention the consistent insane play of Thompson the past two post seasons (a man definitely worth what we're paying him.and then some)

You can actually sell a guy like Wade (and others now) on this stuff. There's no more pressure, no gun to our heads...that's pretty awesome, isn't it?

 

[Funkmastabuck]

Although it's extremely unlikely that Wade will join the Cavs this off season, I'm sort of curious about how he would fit and what it would mean to our style of play.

Looking at his stats, his 3 pt shooting dropped to under 20% last season. But he's still a fairly elite player (PER) and earns 4.4 pts per game at the free throw line.

So having him on the court with Kyrie and LeBron would mean having 3 players who are at their best attacking off the cut/dribble. I think Wade would actually make Love's role increasingly valuable, as you'd have even more open looks from that position.

That Cavs seem to be a team that will work on running a more wide open offense in the regular season and in easy playoff series. But against similar competition in the playoffs, this is an attack the basket team. And Wade would only add to that.

 

[cavsfever]

His 3 point shooting percentage was truly horrible in the regular season (16% on half a shot per game) but check out what happened in the playoffs -- he shot 52% from 3 in 1.6 shots per game! And not such a small sample size either, it's 14 games. Still only a run of 14-23 on three pointers, but after this year's playoffs he definitely looks like a guy who still has some gas in the tank when the lights are brightest...

 

[Simon]

 

[Lyuokdea]

Sounds positive -- question is. Is Wade mulling offers because he wants to win? Or because he wants 3 years $60M?

The first leads to the Cavs, and the second elsewhere...

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Is Wade mulling offers because he wants to win? Or because he wants 3 years $60M?

It's 2015 redux, aka a ploy to get the Heat to pony up the dough.

 

[Lyuokdea]

It's 2015 redux, aka a ploy to get the Heat to pony up the dough.

The question this year is:

w/o Whiteside, or Durant (guessing)
an unreliable Bosh

Do you really want to pay $20M/year for Wade anymore if you're the Heat?