Potential 2019 Head coaches for the Browns

[The Wizard of Moz]

My point is, you can talk about offenses, management style, coaching decisions, challenges and whatever else but the bottom line for a head coach does he win or not. McCarthy, whatever his faults are, wins a helluva lot more games than he loses. So if we are talking basic things like eye test, I'm going to put a ton more weight on Win/Loss than the eye test

Eh we’ll have to agree to disagree then. A lot of variables go into it beyond just the end result. Also something that Jack mentioned is that the league doesn’t stand still. What might have worked for coaches in 2006, 2011, hell even 2017 May not work in 2019.

The game can pass you by if you don’t adjust. It seems like the biggest question mark people have of McCarthy is can he adjust.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

My point is, you can talk about offenses, management style, coaching decisions, challenges and whatever else but the bottom line for a head coach does he win or not. McCarthy, whatever his faults are, wins a helluva lot more games than he loses. So if we are talking basic things like eye test, I'm going to put a ton more weight on Win/Loss than the eye test

But...its so easily explained as to why.

He has had damn near 10 years of elite QB play. Any system can look good when Rodgers is your QB.

He is such a below average coach. You might win the games you are supposed to and get lucky and win 1 SB, but it's not likely with him.

Hes been an awful coach ever since 2015. Packers fans have been begging for him to get fired for 3 years now.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

View: https://twitter.com/sportsrapport/status/1069678723614564353

*He will lead them

 

[Selby]

But...its so easily explained as to why.

He has had damn near 10 years of elite QB play. Any system can look good when Rodgers is your QB.

He is such a below average coach. You might win the games you are supposed to and get lucky and win 1 SB, but it's not likely with him.

Hes been an awful coach ever since 2015. Packers fans have been begging for him to get fired for 3 years now.

They went to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016. They went the the divisional round and the NFC championship game in those years, respectively. I legitimately don't understand this comment. At all. If you want to point to 2017 okay, but even then they went 7-9 with Rodgers only playing 7 games.

 

[Jack Brickman]

They went to the playoffs in 2015 and 2016. They went the the divisional round and the NFC championship game in those years, respectively. I legitimately don't understand this comment. At all. If you want to point to 2017 okay, but even then they went 7-9 with Rodgers only playing 7 games.

Kind of seems to imply that Rodgers is the reason they win more so than McCarthy.

And we can bring up the Packers' failed drafts, but it's often hard to figure out if players busting is due to bad drafting or poor coaching. We saw first hand how poorly Hue Jackson and Todd Haley developed and coached players. Most of our guys looked lost the first half of the season, but almost everyone immediately improved as soon as Kitchens took over and started adjusting play calling to personnel.

So with McCarthy, is it the chicken or the egg? Did he fail because the Packers kept bombing draft after draft or did he fail because he completely failed to develop or properly coach most of their draft picks? That's a big risk to take when you only have one shot at hiring the right coach.

 

[dark2332]

What are your guys thoughts on eric bieniemy? Too early for him?

He doesn’t call plays. Reid does.

Thus, I don’t think you can give him credit for being the mastermind of that offense.

Nagy, at least last year, got some experience calling plays.

 

[Soda]

Kind of seems to imply that Rodgers is the reason they win more so than McCarthy.

And we can bring up the Packers' failed drafts, but it's often hard to figure out if players busting is due to bad drafting or poor coaching. We saw first hand how poorly Hue Jackson and Todd Haley developed and coached players. Most of our guys looked lost the first half of the season, but almost everyone immediately improved as soon as Kitchens took over and started adjusting play calling to personnel.

So with McCarthy, is it the chicken or the egg? Did he fail because the Packers kept bombing draft after draft or did he fail because he completely failed to develop or properly coach most of their draft picks? That's a big risk to take when you only have one shot at hiring the right coach.

It's also plausible that Rodgers' hi-jacking of the offense effectively neutered any offensive philosophy McCarthy had.

It's definitely a "chicken or the egg" thing, but I don't know that we should automatically be assuming Rodgers & Ted Thompson did their respective jobs in a complimentary fashion. After-all, McCarthy did win a ton of games with guys drafted by the Packers. Was McCarthy not coaching guys when he won a Super Bowl? I don't buy that he just forgot how to develop guys and I don't buy that Ted Thompson went from a draft maven to a draft dunce.

ETA:

Do we think that Mike McCarthy's "outdated" offensive philosophy is calling for leading the league in passing on first down?

 

[Seiklis]

The one thing that has made me think McCarthy is not and will not be on the table is that McCarthy won't come without some player say and Dorsey isn't bringing anyone in who he'd lose power to

 

[Phills14]

But...its so easily explained as to why.

He has had damn near 10 years of elite QB play. Any system can look good when Rodgers is your QB.

He is such a below average coach. You might win the games you are supposed to and get lucky and win 1 SB, but it's not likely with him.

Hes been an awful coach ever since 2015. Packers fans have been begging for him to get fired for 3 years now.

Having an elite QB is a negative on him? Outside of Rodgers' rookie season, last year and then of course this season, McCarthy has gotten to the playoffs every year. He even took them to the playoffs when Rodgers played 7 games and Brett Friggin Hundley had to start 9 games.

You say the league has passed him by but his offenses since 2008 have been ranked (5, 3, 10, 1, 5, 8, 1, 15, 4, 21, 16) in terms of points scored. His offenses are consistently above league average and mostly top 10.

I don't claim to be an expert on McCarthy. I don't watch Green Bay games. That being said, the results he produces are pretty impressive.

When you say he's been an awful coach since 2015, what can you point to? Why do you say that? Not being a jerk, legit asking.

 

[Ob1]

You say the league has passed him by but his offenses since 2008 have been ranked (5, 3, 10, 1, 5, 8, 1, 15, 4, 21, 16) in terms of points scored. His offenses are consistently above league average and mostly top 10.

Not a great trend with arguably the best QB in the game.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

It's also plausible that Rodgers' hi-jacking of the offense effectively neutered any offensive philosophy McCarthy had.

Substitute out LeBron for Rodgers and Lue for McCarthy and this was a very frequent argument on this board

I just can’t get behind the idea that Rodgers has any fault in this. Rodgers was frustrated with McCarthy and said ask Mike about the playcalling when asked because he only controls the 2 minute drill. So I’m not buying it

There’s also more to being an innovative offense than throwing on first down. His own offensive players putting down his offensive abilities to me says a lot

 

[jlegg21]

Kitchens and Williams really seem to be growing with this group and I feel like I want to see more. A full offseason without Hue in the way, no Hard Knocks, and the huge leap Baker is likely to make between year 1 and 2.

People seem to think Arians has a system he sticks to with deep drops and long throws, but he sure seems to tailor his offenses to his personnel really well, and he always had big pocket passers. No reason to think he wouldnt adjust to Baker's strengths, especially if he keeps Kitchens in place.

I'm for the continuity route and I've always liked Bruce Arians. Give me option B and let's start contending next year.

 

[Jack Brickman]

It's also plausible that Rodgers' hi-jacking of the offense effectively neutered any offensive philosophy McCarthy had.

It's definitely a "chicken or the egg" thing, but I don't know that we should automatically be assuming Rodgers & Ted Thompson did their respective jobs in a complimentary fashion. After-all, McCarthy did win a ton of games with guys drafted by the Packers. Was McCarthy not coaching guys when he won a Super Bowl? I don't buy that he just forgot how to develop guys and I don't buy that Ted Thompson went from a draft maven to a draft dunce.

ETA:

Do we think that Mike McCarthy's "outdated" offensive philosophy is calling for leading the league in passing on first down?

I think the point is that they have a RB who is averaging over six yards on first down and yet they still opt to throw it more than any team in the league on first. That's just not an efficient use of personnel.

And the lack of play action or pre-snap movement is the real damning thing to me. This is a league where you need to keep defenses guessing constantly, and a stagnant, immobile offense does the polar opposite of that.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Kitchens and Williams really seem to be growing with this group and I feel like I want to see more. A full offseason without Hue in the way, no Hard Knocks, and the huge leap Baker is likely to make between year 1 and 2.

People seem to think Arians has a system he sticks to with deep drops and long throws, but he sure seems to tailor his offenses to his personnel really well, and he always had big pocket passers. No reason to think he wouldnt adjust to Baker's strengths, especially if he keeps Kitchens in place.

I'm for the continuity route and I've always liked Bruce Arians. Give me option B and let's start contending next year.

Don’t get the love for Williams. His defense is:

30th in yards allowed
24th In PPG
28th in passing yards per game
28th in rushing yards per game
19th in sacks (despite incessantly blitzing)

Yes, they’ve forced a lot of turnovers, but unfortunately that stat tends to not translate too well year-to-year.

Gregg just looks decent because he followed the worst HC in league history. We can't forget he's still bad at the job he was hired to do.

 

[Triple-S]

The one thing that has made me think McCarthy is not and will not be on the table is that McCarthy won't come without some player say and Dorsey isn't bringing anyone in who he'd lose power to

This feels like even more of a reason for the Arians/Kitchens/Gregg combo.

Because if there is a power struggle with Arians, say 2 seasons from now? it's a helluva lot easier to cut bait.