Rockets shut down trade talks about Omer Asik

[I'mWithDan]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Where does this attitude problem talk come from? From a Bleacher Report (lol) article that cites no actual sources that has been refuted by Dion himself and several people closer to the situation? Are you watching this kid play? He doesn't look like a guy who hates his life and his role and his teammates. In fact, he's starting to look like a guy who has totally bought in to the team and coach, kind of like he did his sophomore year at 'Cuse.

As for the inefficiency, most two-guards are inefficient their sophomore year in the league, so I'm not really sure why that's an issue. Hell, even some of the best two guards in the league don't shoot that much better than Dion does despite an edge in experience, and I doubt any of them were much better (if at all) during their sophomore campaign.

It's also funny that you seem to cite his improvement as a negative. Shouldn't we expect our young players to improve as they grow and get older? I'd say the fact that Dion is up almost two percent from last year is a great sign of things to come. Unless he just stops improving for no particular reason, he should theoretically only get better over the next few years. If he raises his field goal percentage just two percent from where it's at right now (not unrealistic), he'd be shooting in the top ten for qualified two-guards in the league right now. I don't see that as unrealistic at all.

I'm not citing his improvement as a negative. Jesus man.

I'm saying if a guy was 22nd out of 24 SG's that qualified for shooting percentages in 2013 and a top 5 pick, my expectation would be that he would improve in some capacity. I think it would be a damn near statistical impossibility.

I'm arguing his improvement isn't as significant as people are making it out to be. Every percentage point gets harder and harder to attain. Going from 41-43 is not the same as going from 43-45. 43-45 is a MASSIVE improvement statistically if you look at SG FG percentages. Only 4 SG did that (.450) for an entire season in 2012-13.

I like Dion, I don't think he's trash (as someone alluded to) but he's still a long way away. I have no clue if he'll get there. None. So I really don't value him as being worth more than a Jeff Green like player at this point. Does he have the potential to be better than that? Yes....so have hundreds of other NBA players. I have no problem with Cleveland holding on to him, just as I would have had no problem with the FO moving him. I just don't think he's done enough to warrant this much outrage.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Hey, ImWithDan...if Dion is inefficient, what can I call our best player right now then?

Also, I hate the people who preach "fit" for over talent, especially Cavs fans. I saw what "fit" over talent does for a team during the LBJ era and I don't want to see it again. We had one guy who could consistently get to the rim or create, defenses keyed in on him and that forced him to either A. force shots himself or B. feed secondary players who have to make jump shots, a much more inefficient play than driving to the rim...that is not how you win playoff games and championships...teams that "fit" well together relax at home while the teams with the most talent move on. And don't give me this bullshit that Kyrie is the better player and shouldn't have to change his game for those around him....what the hell kind of "superstar" are you that you can't change your game to make your team and your teammates better, especially as a PG.

And since when is the want to win an attitude issue? Every word I have ever heard Dion say is about his teammates, or getting himself better, or finding ways to win games...none of us are in that locker room, none of us are around them in the practice facility, none of us are hanging around with him on a daily basis, so quit using personal assumptions like he's jealous of Kyrie, or he only wants his, or he calls out his teammates cause none of you have any real proof that that shit is true (looking at you, Birdy). The fact that some members of a board called RealCavsFans are seemingly rooting AGAINST a Cavs player is hilarious. It's sad, he's been improving so much the past few weeks, raising all of his numbers, his shooting percentages, and upping his defense and intensity yet all we have are people who are still talking about an issue that never happened (him and Kyrie fighting) or are too busy trying to find a way to get rid of him. Again, sad.

 

[I'mWithDan]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Hey, ImWithDan...if Dion is inefficient, what can I call our best player right now then?

So Dion is a 20+ PPG career scorer now? With a ROY award and an All-Star game?

Also, I hate the people who preach "fit" for over talent, especially Cavs fans. I saw what "fit" over talent does for a team during the LBJ era and I don't want to see it again. We had one guy who could consistently get to the rim or create, defenses keyed in on him and that forced him to either A. force shots himself or B. feed secondary players who have to make jump shots, a much more inefficient play than driving to the rim...that is not how you win playoff games and championships...teams that "fit" well together relax at home while the teams with the most talent move on. And don't give me this bullshit that Kyrie is the better player and shouldn't have to change his game for those around him....what the hell kind of "superstar" are you that you can't change your game to make your team and your teammates better, especially as a PG.

I only agree with this rational to a certain extent. The Cavs didn't win because LeBron **** himself in some of the biggest moments. If Cleveland has Miami LeBron....who was just stone cold in (2) title runs, they win a championship easily. Would another scoring option have helped? Sure but the biggest hurdle was not a player like Dion, it was getting our superstar to step up and consistently deliver in crunch time.

And since when is the want to win an attitude issue? Every word I have ever heard Dion say is about his teammates, or getting himself better, or finding ways to win games...none of us are in that locker room, none of us are around them in the practice facility, none of us are hanging around with him on a daily basis, so quit using personal assumptions like he's jealous of Kyrie, or he only wants his, or he calls out his teammates cause none of you have any real proof that that shit is true (looking at you, Birdy). The fact that some members of a board called RealCavsFans are seemingly rooting AGAINST a Cavs player is hilarious. It's sad, he's been improving so much the past few weeks, raising all of his numbers, his shooting percentages, and upping his defense and intensity yet all we have are people who are still talking about an issue that never happened (him and Kyrie fighting) or are too busy trying to find a way to get rid of him. Again, sad.

Where have I said I'm rooting against him? I said he was overvalued. Those are two entirely different things.

I've been on this board for 3+ years and have never just flat out attacked, cheered against or flamed a player. Never. Go look through all my posts if you want. Don't really plan on starting now. I simply disagree with a large collection of other Cavs fans on ONE SINGLE PLAYER and everyone freaks out. Asking me if I even watch basketball and numerous other dumb comments. Yes, I have made 1,000 posts, donated money on several occasions to this site and have spent 3+ years following a crappy product and people are asking me if I follow the team. Seems like a ton of effort for no reason.

Quite frankly, this is this first time I've ever gone against the grain with a player on the roster. So apparently I need to just keep any sort of differing opinion to myself. Join in on the collective circle jerk and avoid any sort of mildly negative discussion about a player.

 

[SteelSmack]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

So Dion is a 20+ PPG career scorer now? With a ROY award and an All-Star game?

He said if Dion is INEFFICIENT what is Kyrie? Because Dion is more efficient than Kyrie is, right now. What does any of that have to do with being efficient?

 

[Birdy89]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Because Dion is more efficient than Kyrie is, right now.

The player efficiency rating (PER) would disagree with that, but let's not let stats get in the way of a good argument.

Sad part is Kyrie's PER is way down from the past 2 seasons, and it's still 23% higher than Dion's (he is currently at his career high in PER).

Now proceed (as I am sure you will) to tell me how the stat is bunk, and that the eye test is superior, and that anyone who doesn't agree doesn't watch basketball.

 

[Fuggles]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

He said if Dion is INEFFICIENT what is Kyrie? Because Dion is more efficient than Kyrie is, right now. What does any of that have to do with being efficient?

So are you trying to say that Dion will never get a Pepsi commercial?

 

[I'mWithDan]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

He said if Dion is INEFFICIENT what is Kyrie? Because Dion is more efficient than Kyrie is, right now. What does any of that have to do with being efficient?

This is turing in to one of the dumbest threads ever.

One player has shown to be wildly efficient over his career. One has not.

People would be doing backflips if Dion had Kyrie's 18+ PER right now.

Kyrie can be given the benefit of the doubt at this point, which significant personal achievements (ROY's, All-Star Game, etc.) should have obviously alluded to.

Dion needs to earn it.

 

[MoFlo]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

I don't have the time to move all these posts to the proper thread right now, but for the love of God, take the Dion talk to his thread. If it's Asik related, fine, but as far as his game goes, go to the proper thread.

 

[Triumph36]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

The player efficiency rating (PER) would disagree with that, but let's not let stats get in the way of a good argument.

Sad part is Kyrie's PER is way down from the past 2 seasons, and it's still 23% higher than Dion's (he is currently at his career high in PER).

Now proceed (as I am sure you will) to tell me how the stat is bunk, and that the eye test is superior, and that anyone who doesn't agree doesn't watch basketball.

ts% is a better metric for offensive efficiency tho. dion 51.3% vs kyrie 50.2%. dion is ahead, but both are pretty inefficient.

I don't have the time to move all these posts to the proper thread right now, but for the love of God, take the Dion talk to his thread. If it's Asik related, fine, but as far as his game goes, go to the proper thread.

sorry sorry sorry. had to reply to the above.

ANYWAY......

today is (supposedly) the day! i guess the celtics and bass/lee/1st are still the front runner? i'm still not a huge fan of rushing the process, but if morey is dead set on moving him today that is a pretty good deal all things considered.

 

[SteelSmack]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

The player efficiency rating (PER) would disagree with that, but let's not let stats get in the way of a good argument.

Sad part is Kyrie's PER is way down from the past 2 seasons, and it's still 23% higher than Dion's (he is currently at his career high in PER).

Now proceed (as I am sure you will) to tell me how the stat is bunk, and that the eye test is superior, and that anyone who doesn't agree doesn't watch basketball.

eFG% says I'm right. PER is a terrible judge of efficiency, it pays to take more shots as long as you shoot 36%. It rewards chuckers. eFG% tells me how rewarding it is for a player to take a shot, Dion is better than Kyrie at that this year (so far, Kyrie will be better when the season ends, I think).

As far as Asik, I'm sticking with Boston is a smokescreen, I'm betting Philly is as well, someone else will get Asik.

 

[CornerThree]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Asik has to be traded by like 4pm today, right, for it to be counted on this business day?

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

As far as Asik, I'm sticking with Boston is a smokescreen, I'm betting Philly is as well, someone else will get Asik.

I think a Hawks/Millsap trade makes the most sense for Houston. It's just a matter of whether or not Atlanta would give up a pretty dynamic offensive PF for a better position fit with Horford (since Asik is a true C and lets Horford slide to his preferred PF role) and a better defensive presence.

 

[PITCavsFan]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

Asik has to be traded by like 4pm today, right, for it to be counted on this business day?

Actually, I think the NBA is saying the Rockets can technically wait until Friday to make a deal and still be able to re-trade any players they acquire. Whether they stick to their own Dec 19 deadline - who knows. But I can definitely see this dragging into tomorrow.



http://spacecityscoop.com/2013/12/19/houston-rockets-omer-asik-trade-deadline-linger-friday/

One other important factor to keep an eye on is that the actual NBA deadline of acquiring a player who is eligible to be moved at the trade deadline is actually Dec. 20. While it won’t necessarily change things on the Rockets’ end, it does give some flexibility in case a deal does not come up. Head coach Kevin McHale, on the other hand, seemed to play the self-imposed deadline off, stating after the Rockets’ win over the Bulls Wednesday night that he expects getting Asik back to run with the 2nd unit.

 

[SteelSmack]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

I think a Hawks/Millsap trade makes the most sense for Houston. It's just a matter of whether or not Atlanta would give up a pretty dynamic offensive PF for a better position fit with Horford (since Asik is a true C and lets Horford slide to his preferred PF role) and a better defensive presence.

Hmm a Ferry trade with next to no mention in the mainstream press regarding a possible move, who knew?

 

[elcheato]

Re: Rockets approaching teams about Omer Asik

I think a Hawks/Millsap trade makes the most sense for Houston. It's just a matter of whether or not Atlanta would give up a pretty dynamic offensive PF for a better position fit with Horford (since Asik is a true C and lets Horford slide to his preferred PF role) and a better defensive presence.

Moving Horford to PF would be dumb. He has absolutely no issue guarding centers, and he's a match up nightmare at that position offensively. You're not maximizing his ability at PF.