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The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread (not coaching-related)

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I'm going to miss the dribbled into, long-ranged, contested, 2-point jumpers at the top of the key, just past the three point line, IF, in fact, this trade comes to fruition.

As others are saying, I don't think Thorton really has much of a spot on the team. This is more about removing the albatross contract Jack has while freeing up time at the guard positions.


(EDIT)
I do believe that Jarrett would operate better under Blatt though.
 
red. said:
I'm not fond of Griffin. It seems like we are trying to rebuild all over again. I'm tired. What is his direction for this team?
Click to expand...

Rebuild? We have done the opposite thus far with the moves we have made since he took over as GM.
 
If we don't retain CJ, I could warm up to keeping Thornton around for a year.
 
Don't forget, we have Scotty Hopson on a non-guaranteed 1.45 million deal. It's possible to use his contract in a trade as well (If we do end up flipping Thorton shortly after acquiring him).
 
OptimusPrime said:
I wouldn't trade Waiters for Afflalo. Waiters is already as good if not better, and is only 22. But the Cavs probably would.
Click to expand...

In what area? Not defensively (not even close). Not as an off the ball player. Not as a 3 point shooter. Not from the line.

Dion Waiters might be better soon, but he is not as good right now.
 
Rich said:
In what area? Not defensively (not even close). Not as an off the ball player. Not as a 3 point shooter. Not from the line.

Dion Waiters might be better soon, but he is not as good right now.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking, on offense, it's very close between them. Keep in mind Arron had a career year.

Pull Up Jumpshots

Waiters
FGM/FGA: 2.2 / 5.6 (38.9%) -5.0%
3PA/3PM: 0.3 / 1.0 (26%) -14.0%
EFG%: 41.3% -5.8%

Afflalo
FGM/FGA: 2.2 / 5.1 (43.9%) +5.0%
3PA/3PM: 0.3 / 0.8 (40%) +14%
EFG%: 47.1% +5.8%

Catch and Shoot

Waiters
FGM/FGA: 1.4 / 3.4 (41.9%) -2.7%
3PA/3PM: 1.0 / 2.5 (41.6%) -1.8%
EFG%: 57.2% -0.5%
Catch and Shoot PPG: 3.9 -2.2

Afflalo
FGM/FGA: 2.4 / 5.3 (44.6%) +2.7%
3PA/3PM: 1.4 / 3.2 (43.4%) +1.8%
EFG%: 57.7% +0.5%
Catch and Shoot PPG: 6.1 +2.2

Drives (Fast Break drives DON'T count)

Waiters
FG%: 40.6% -0.2%
Total Drives: 508 +293
Total Points: 276 +133
Drives per game: 7.3 +4.4
Drive PPG: 3.9 +1.9
Team PPG from Drives: 7.2 +3.6

Afflalo
FG%: 40.8% +0.2%
Total Drives: 215 -293
Total Points: 143 -133
Drives per game: 2.9 -4.4
Drive PPG: 2.0 -1.9
Team PPG from Drives: 3.6-3.6

Passing

Waiters
APG: 3.0 -0.4
Passes Per Game: 28.3 -11.2
FT Assists Per Game: 0.3 +0.1
Secondary Assists Per Game: 0.7 +/- 0
Assist Opportunities Per Game: 5.8 -1.5
Points Created by Assist: 7.3 -0.7
Per 48 Points Created by Assist: 11.7 +0.8

Afflalo
APG: 3.4 +0.4
Passes Per Game: 39.5 +11.2
FT Assists Per Game: 0.2 -0.1
Secondary Assists Per Game: 0.7 +/- 0
Assist Opportunities Per Game: 7.3 +1.5
Points Created by Assist: 8.0 +0.7
Per 48 Points Created by Assist: 10.9 -0.8

Touches

Waiters
Minutes Per Game: 29.9 minutes -5.2
Touches Per Game: 47.8 -10.3
Time of Possession Per Game: 2.8 minutes +0.5
Points per Touch: 0.33 +0.2
Points per Half-Court Touch: 0.36 -0.2

Afflalo
Minutes Per Game: 35.1 minutes +5.2
Touches Per Game: 58.1 +10.3
Time of Possession Per Game: 2.3 minutes -0.5
Points per Touch: 0.31 -0.2
Points per Half-Court Touch: 0.38 +0.2


Now granted, this is from a strictly statistical analysis. I freely admit that I have not seen Afflalo play very much. Again, this does not take into account defense, which I do believe Arron has the advantage. He has the height, the IQ, the rebounding advantage. But I don't believe Dion to be a bad defender. Over the course of the season, it seemed as if he was playing more hard-nosed D and not messing up his rotations as much as the beginning of the year. As far as Free Throws, Dion absolutely has to improve. He does drive more than Afflalo, a lot more, so as long as he increases his percentages, he should be just as valuable for that aspect. Yes, Arron is the better offensive player right now, though it's a lot closer than you would seem to think.

Also, remember, Waiters improved after the AllStar Break (I understand he was playing more minutes too).
Pre All-Star :
28.4 MPG, 14.3 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 0.2 BPG, 0.9 SPG, 41.7 FG%, 36.1 3P%, 67.1 FT%, 2.2 TPG

Post All-Star :
32.2 MPG (+3.8), 19.3 PPG (+5), 2.6 RPG (-0.3), 3.7 APG (+1.0), 0.4 BPG (+0.2), 1.0 SPG (+0.1), 46.0 FG% (+4.3%), 37.9 3P% (+1.8%), 71.4 FT% (+4.3%), 2.1 TPG (-0.1)

While Afflalo declined.
Pre All-Star:
36.5 MPG, 19.4 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 3.7 APG, 0.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG, 46.3 FG%, 42.5 3P%, 82 FT%, 2.1 TPG

Post All-Star :
31.6 MPG (-4.9), 15.7 PPG (-3.7), 2.4 RPG (-1.7), 2.8 APG (-0.9), 0.0 BPG, 0.2 SPG (-0.4), 44.9% FG% (-1.4%), 43.2 3P% (+0.7%), 80.2% (-1.8%), 1.8 TPG (-0.3)


So, when I take everything into account (age, contracts, stats, what I've seen with Dion), I would rather keep Waiters, but I do like Afflalo. He is more mature and experienced, that's for sure.
 
Last edited:
Worth noting, ESPN's "Real Plus Minus" rates Afflalo 80th out of 90 SG's defensively. Dion ranked 52nd, for comparison. The pure plus/minus rating on GotBuckets (i.e. not box score informed) rates Afflalo the 12th-worst defender in the league out of all players. He's probably not all he's cracked up to be on that end...
 
Nathan S said:
Worth noting, ESPN's "Real Plus Minus" rates Afflalo 80th out of 90 SG's defensively. Dion ranked 52nd, for comparison. The pure plus/minus rating on GotBuckets (i.e. not box score informed) rates Afflalo the 12th-worst defender in the league out of all players. He's probably not all he's cracked up to be on that end...
Click to expand...

Of course he's not. People overrate everybody else, but our own players.
 
stickboltman said:
Strictly speaking, on offense, it's very close between them. Keep in mind Arron had a career year.

Pull Up Jumpshots

Waiters
FGM/FGA: 2.2 / 5.6 (38.9%) -5.0%
3PA/3PM: 0.3 / 1.0 (26%) -14.0%
EFG%: 41.3% -5.8%

Afflalo
FGM/FGA: 2.2 / 5.1 (43.9%) +5.0%
3PA/3PM: 0.3 / 0.8 (40%) +14%
EFG%: 47.1% +5.8%

Catch and Shoot

Waiters
FGM/FGA: 1.4 / 3.4 (41.9%) -2.7%
3PA/3PM: 1.0 / 2.5 (41.6%) -1.8%
EFG%: 57.2% -0.5%
Catch and Shoot PPG: 3.9 -2.2

Afflalo
FGM/FGA: 2.4 / 5.3 (44.6%) +2.7%
3PA/3PM: 1.4 / 3.2 (43.4%) +1.8%
EFG%: 57.7% +0.5%
Catch and Shoot PPG: 6.1 +2.2

Drives (Fast Break drives DON'T count)

Waiters
FG%: 40.6% -0.2%
Total Drives: 508 +293
Total Points: 276 +133
Drives per game: 7.3 +4.4
Drive PPG: 3.9 +1.9
Team PPG from Drives: 7.2 +3.6

Afflalo
FG%: 40.8% +0.2%
Total Drives: 215 -293
Total Points: 143 -133
Drives per game: 2.9 -4.4
Drive PPG: 2.0 -1.9
Team PPG from Drives: 3.6-3.6

Passing

Waiters
APG: 3.0 -0.4
Passes Per Game: 28.3 -11.2
FT Assists Per Game: 0.3 +0.1
Secondary Assists Per Game: 0.7 +/- 0
Assist Opportunities Per Game: 5.8 -1.5
Points Created by Assist: 7.3 -0.7
Per 48 Points Created by Assist: 11.7 +0.8

Afflalo
APG: 3.4 +0.4
Passes Per Game: 39.5 +11.2
FT Assists Per Game: 0.2 -0.1
Secondary Assists Per Game: 0.7 +/- 0
Assist Opportunities Per Game: 7.3 +1.5
Points Created by Assist: 8.0 +0.7
Per 48 Points Created by Assist: 10.9 -0.8

Touches

Waiters
Minutes Per Game: 29.9 minutes -5.2
Touches Per Game: 47.8 -10.3
Time of Possession Per Game: 2.8 minutes +0.5
Points per Touch: 0.33 +0.2
Points per Half-Court Touch: 0.36 -0.2

Afflalo
Minutes Per Game: 35.1 minutes +5.2
Touches Per Game: 58.1 +10.3
Time of Possession Per Game: 2.3 minutes -0.5
Points per Touch: 0.31 -0.2
Points per Half-Court Touch: 0.38 +0.2


Now granted, this is from a strictly statistical analysis. I freely admit that I have not seen Afflalo play very much. Again, this does not take into account defense, which I do believe Arron has the advantage. He has the height, the IQ, the rebounding advantage. But I don't believe Dion to be a bad defender. Over the course of the season, it seemed as if he was playing more hard-nosed D and not messing up his rotations as much as the beginning of the year. As far as Free Throws, Dion absolutely has to improve. He does drive more than Afflalo, a lot more, so as long as he increases his percentages, he should be just as valuable for that aspect. Yes, Arron is the better offensive player right now, though it's a lot closer than you would seem to think.

Also, remember, Waiters improved after the AllStar Break (I understand he was playing more minutes too).
Pre All-Star :
28.4 MPG, 14.3 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 2.7 APG, 0.2 BPG, 0.9 SPG, 41.7 FG%, 36.1 3P%, 67.1 FT%, 2.2 TPG

Post All-Star :
32.2 MPG (+3.8), 19.3 PPG (+5), 2.6 RPG (-0.3), 3.7 APG (+1.0), 0.4 BPG (+0.2), 1.0 SPG (+0.1), 46.0 FG% (+4.3%), 37.9 3P% (+1.8%), 71.4 FT% (+4.3%), 2.1 TPG (-0.1)

While Afflalo declined.
Pre All-Star:
36.5 MPG, 19.4 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 3.7 APG, 0.0 BPG, 0.6 SPG, 46.3 FG%, 42.5 3P%, 82 FT%, 2.1 TPG

Post All-Star :
31.6 MPG (-4.9), 15.7 PPG (-3.7), 2.4 RPG (-1.7), 2.8 APG (-0.9), 0.0 BPG, 0.2 SPG (-0.4), 44.9% FG% (-1.4%), 43.2 3P% (+0.7%), 80.2% (-1.8%), 1.8 TPG (-0.3)


So, when I take everything into account (age, contracts, stats, what I've seen with Dion), I would rather keep Waiters, but I do like Afflalo. He is more mature and experienced, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

1) Did not say I'd move Waiters for Afflalo. But I did say and will stand by the statement that Afflalo is a better player right now.

2) The shooting numbers are significantly in Afflalo's favor. He's better from every spot on the floor and the real killer here is shot selection. Afflalo takes less pull-up jump shots and while neither are effective at converting at the rim, Afflalo recognizes it and limits those attempts and Dion doesn't. Now, you can take this as a positive in Dion's favor, and it's probably the one area he's better than Afflalo. He can get to the rim. But unless and until he actually starts converting at the rim, it's not a huge advantage.
 
I know we will make some trades and additions to this roster.

But I'd like to retain as much young talent as possible. I just really think Blatt can maximize the current talent on the team.

Plus I think the value on many of our young guys is low. For example trading Bennett is pretty silly because you won't get anything close back compared to what was invested.

Obviously if a big name becomes available, you make the move. Or if there are certain toxicity issues in the locker room that need to be resolved.

But I'd like to see what Blatt can do with the young talent on the team.
 
I do not necessarily want him, but Jordan Farmar played in parts of two seasons for Maccabi and will be a free agent. Possible 3rd PG after Jack is hopefully sent away?
 
Saor said:
I know we will make some trades and additions to this roster.

But I'd like to retain as much young talent as possible. I just really think Blatt can maximize the current talent on the team.

Plus I think the value on many of our young guys is low. For example trading Bennett is pretty silly because you won't get anything close back compared to what was invested.

Obviously if a big name becomes available, you make the move. Or if there are certain toxicity issues in the locker room that need to be resolved.

But I'd like to see what Blatt can do with the young talent on the team.
Click to expand...

I feel this way too. If some guys are resistant or not gelling by trade deadline, move them esp if there are redundancies. You are also going to have several young guys that should be more NBA ready this year. Trade them now, and you won't even know what you are sending out.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Suns' Channing Frye has 'til Monday to decide to play next season at $6.8 mil w/PHX or opt out. Source: &quot;99 percent&quot; he chooses free agency</p>&mdash; Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/statuses/480831978254524416">June 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>As stretch four with big role in Suns' surprising season, Frye said to be on radar of both Warriors &amp; Cavs if he indeed opts for free agency</p>&mdash; Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/statuses/480832523128156161">June 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Keep an eye on this. I'd say right now we could be the favorites to land him.
 
Perhaps another subtle hint that Wiggins is likely to be the pick? We don't need any more stretch 4's if we get Frye. Also a sign that Hawes might be gone.
 
I would love a Frye/Bennett rotation at the 4. Give Bennett time to develop but you don't have to rely on him.
 
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