The Andre Drummond Thread

[RchfldCavRaised]

The fucking athleticsm is crazy. Those dipsy doo layups is guard like and he does not try to dunk everything and shows a good touch from close range. WTF is Grant thinking not taking this kid with the lack of major talent on this team? Dion has not shown shit that he deserves to be picked 4th. What we got was an undersized shooting guard who really can't shoot consistently.

I want Danny Ferry and Mike Brown back!!!!

I was over here being brought to my feet... and then you mentioned Mike Brown and I quickly sat down.

Ferry, yes, Brown, NO! :chuckles:

 

[Jack Brickman]

I was over here being brought to my feet... and then you mentioned Mike Brown and I quickly sat down.

Ferry, yes, Brown, NO! :chuckles:

What did Ferry do during his tenure here that was so special? He overpaid Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Damon Jones. Two of those were washed-up veterans and the third was, at best, a mediocre two-guard being forced to play out of position at the point half the time. Those moves also tied up our salary cap and made it almost impossible for the Cavs to do much aside from flip those contracts for worse ones, like Shaq's or Jamison's (again, two washed-up veterans.

Maybe Ferry was under pressure from Gilbert to win now. In fact, he probably was. But none of that discounts that most of what he did with the Cavs could be described as either reckless or short-sighted. I don't see how anyone could argue that he was a good GM, let alone one that we'd actually want back. He took over the job with a guy destined to be a top-five all-time player and he failed to put high-quality teammates around him, which resulted in said player leaving the franchise in smoking ruins.

I think it says everything about the team Ferry put together that, the year after LeBron left, and with mostly guys that Ferry put on this team (remember, Grant made minimal moves prior to the 2011 season), we witnessed one of the worst, most depressing, painful-to-watch Cavs teams of all time.

Oh, and it was also Ferry's decision to keep Mike Brown around despite the fact that Mike Brown was clearly in over his head. Brown was Ferry's guy, and he refused to fire him even after multiple years of embarrassing losses that were almost entirely Brown's fault.

 

[RikSmits]

I don't mind admitting that I wasn't very keen on Drummond and sceptical because of his red flags.

It would be easy for me to say right now that I would have 100% sure taken him over Waiters, but that would be revisionist BS.
I rated him behind Davis, MKG, Beal, and Robinson prior to the draft, if I'm not mistaken. I wasn't even considering Waiters or knew much about him, like most people.

All I can do his hope fervently that Waiters will be good enough to not be too upset about it.
I will be very surprised if Drummond will turn out to be a journeyman big body.

 

[MDLT]

I'm not real big on Waiters, but I'm just inclined to wait until at least one regular season game is completed before making a judgement.

Also, not only did Drummond not get taken at 4, but the Cavs but he was passed over 8 times -- and need doesn't really matter for the other teams -- any NBA team who thinks they have a shot at a stud big man will take him, no matter what they have on their roster. There is undeniably something that scouts and GMs were concerned about, and it showed itself on draft day.

 

[Jon]

It's far more excusable for a young big to struggle even without the extenuating circumstances at UCONN.

 

[GCCSteel]

Its a bit too early to criticize Grant with such assuredness.

Drummond averaged 17 mins 9 pts 6 rebs and 2 blks per game. Most, if not all, of his offense came off of alley oops, tip dunks or assisted baskets. He played well, but lets see how the regular season goes. Can he be a defensive force, solid rebounder AND create for himself on offense? If he can, some teams will be kicking themselves. If not, he was selected right where he should have been. It's clear he has the size and athleticism to do so, but so do a lot of players riding the pine around the league. It should be noted that Maxiel is the starting PF and Drummond is on the bench to start the season.

For reference, Waiters averaged 22 mins 9 pts 2 rebs 2 asts and shot only 33% from the field. I would wager anything that he will shoot better from the field in the regular season. Remember Dion's flash game against the Bulls where he scored 18 on 4/4 threes? Byron said "he's capable of shooting like that" after the game and I believe him.

If he can go 25 mins 12 pts on 45/35/80 with 3 rebs/asts per game and defend opposing SGs I don't think I can fault Grant. That is solid production that I think he can provide. Drummond may turn out to be good, but I can't fault Grant for taking Dion.

 

[Jon]

If he can go 25 mins 12 pts on 45/35/80 with 3 rebs/asts per game and defend opposing SGs I don't think I can fault Grant. That is solid production that I think he can provide. Drummond may turn out to be good, but I can't fault Grant for taking Dion.

This is in tribute to Nathan:

Only 8 rookies in the history of the NBA have put up those numbers: Larry Bird, Mitch Richmod, Stephen Curry, Kyrie Irving, and umm ... Billy Ray Bates, Keith Jennings, Jeff McInnis, and Tyson Wheeler.

 

[GCCSteel]

This is in tribute to Nathan:

Only 8 rookies in the history of the NBA have put up those numbers: Larry Bird, Mitch Richmod, Stephen Curry, Kyrie Irving, and umm ... Billy Ray Bates, Keith Jennings, Jeff McInnis, and Tyson Wheeler.

Yea, I knew I shouldn't have tried to guess averages when they aren't my forte. I will rephrase to double digit points and a few assists on decent shooting percentages.

My main point, though, is that Drummond was a risky pick that hasn't "arrived" yet just because he put together a string of highlights in preseason. It is absurd to start the "I told you so"'s already. Lets wait and see if Dion pans out, at least.

FYI, I'm living in Detroit now and will probably get to see plenty of Drummond, so I'm really hoping Dion plays well. It will allow me to enjoy Drummond a bit more.

 

[Jon]

Yea, I knew I shouldn't have tried to guess averages when they aren't my forte. I will rephrase to double digit points and a few assists on decent shooting percentages.

My main point, though, is that Drummond was a risky pick that hasn't "arrived" yet just because he put together a string of highlights in preseason. It is absurd to start the "I told you so"'s already. Lets wait and see if Dion pans out, at least.

FYI, I'm living in Detroit now and will probably get to see plenty of Drummond, so I'm really hoping Dion plays well. It will allow me to enjoy Drummond a bit more.

We're just looking for some signs of greatness. Rather than looking like a raw/clueless/dope Andre is giving some. Hopefully we won't have to wait much longer for Dion to show us some as well.

 

[Len]

It is far too early, yes. But flashes of greatness is there with Drummond. Dion, on the other hand, is shitting.

I'm with you. I don't mind to see Rookies struggle through SummerLeague, Preseason, and the first opening week. BUT! I would like to see them have atleast 1 explosive/great game over that time span to show that the ability is there.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I'm with you. I don't mind to see Rookies struggle through SummerLeague, Preseason, and the first opening week. BUT! I would like to see them have atleast 1 explosive/great game over that time span to show that the ability is there.

Dion had a game like that against Chicago.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

It is far too early, yes. But flashes of greatness is there with Drummond. Dion, on the other hand, is shitting.

I wouldn't say Dion is shitting. I hope he can develop into a special player but I felt that the Dion pick was a gamble just as much, if not more, than picking Drummond. I keep hearing the reason why we didn't draft him was because how Thomas Robinson destroyed him in one on one workouts. Well, why didn't we draft Thomas Robinson if he was so dominant? Was it because we already had TT? I remember his highlights in college and a lot of naysayers bitching about it saying "oh, it's against college competition....". I keep hearing the same tune.....he played against 6'5" centers in high school......he played against 6'8 centers in college.....now, it's just the pre-season and he's playing against scrubs. I can't wait to see what the next excuse is for this kid.

 

[MDLT]

I wouldn't say Dion is shitting. I hope he can develop into a special player but I felt that the Dion pick was a gamble just as much, if not more, than picking Drummond. I keep hearing the reason why we didn't draft him was because how Thomas Robinson destroyed him in one on one workouts. Well, why didn't we draft Thomas Robinson if he was so dominant? Was it because we already had TT? I remember his highlights in college and a lot of naysayers bitching about it saying "oh, it's against college competition....". I keep hearing the same tune.....he played against 6'5" centers in high school......he played against 6'8 centers in college.....now, it's just the pre-season and he's playing against scrubs. I can't wait to see what the next excuse is for this kid.

But, it wasn't that he was just playing against smaller centers in college, it was that he was not playing particularly well against smaller centers in college (and IMO seemed aloof in many games). It's not as if he was dominant or anything close to that, in reality.

But bottom line is Grant will be judged mainly on how Waiters turns out, in addition to what happens to guys like Drummond, T-Rob, Barnes, etc. If he ends missing on those guys in favor of a guy who busts, then he deserves tons of blame and should lose his job. Time will tell.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

But, it wasn't that he was just playing against smaller centers in college, it was that he was not playing particularly well against smaller centers in college (and IMO seemed aloof in many games). It's not as if he was dominant or anything close to that, in reality.

But bottom line is Grant will be judged mainly on how Waiters turns out, in addition to what happens to guys like Drummond, T-Rob, Barnes, etc. If he ends missing on those guys in favor of a guy who busts, then he deserves tons of blame and should lose his job. Time will tell.

You have to look at how he played relative to what his peers were doing. He was considered to be one of the best centers in college even as a freshmen. People were expecting a Shaq-type domination but many have argued that there were man extenuating circumstances that did not allow him to show case his abilities. Regardless, he played well and sometimes dominant against upperclassmen centers and his stat line is pretty solid considering he was only a freshmen. I'm not saying that Drummond is a guaranteed pick but his risk vs reward scale, imo, was very worthy of the #4 pick in this draft. Oh well, we'll see what happens.

 

[Jon]

There's a fair case to be made for Drummond, and we made it in the Drummond thread; but yeah, it's hardly iron clad. There are questions to be answered about all these guys, even MKG and Beal; albeit Anthony Davis is looking like the real deal.