Trade Deadline 2014 (discussion)

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Those two 2nd rounders combined with our 1st could've allowed us to trade with another team and potentially move up a couple spots in the draft. It's not a far-fetched scenario. Deals like this happen a lot.

Also look at Zeller and Hawes' per36 numbers beforeyou reply. A lot of what you're saying is true but only because Zeller averages 18mpg while Hawes averages 30. You need to look at per36 numbers to account for the difference.

Hawes is better at shooting deep and at passing the ball. Look at the assist numbers. I'm not down on Zeller, but is it so bad to have two guys who can play at C, especially if AV may be out for extended stretches?

Deals to move up by packaging second rounders happen a lot in the NFL, less so in the NBA. Often players are packaged to trade around. Yet is moving up 3-4 slots really more valuable? That Orlando pick is the most valuable to use to move up anyways since it is almost a first.

Last year it took roughly two second rounders just to move up by two slots. Is that better than having Hawes for a quarter of a season? Most of those moves also included an asset on the roster for trading teams.

Chances are good that the Cavs would have picked someone and traded them for future second rounders, stockpiling even more. It's not that these picks have no value, but that it's easy enough to jump back into the 2nd round if there's someone you REALLY like.

 

[wremy]

Yea Zeller has been coming on... let's hope he does continue that play.. if not we got a big who can block shots,,rebound, and spread the floor.. Hawes can bring some offensive consistency to the front court if Bennett or Zeller have an off night... let's not act like our front court is filled with guys that are scorers or have great offensive games... depth is good and if Zeller and Bennett are balling when they get minutes then they will get them IMO... if they aren't some will be happy we added Hawes offensive skill set to this team.. he has never been on a team that preached D.. hopefully he will step it up a bit... Cavs have plenty of assets...not worried about 2nd Rd picks... it's time to try and win and that will be done with trades like this or bigger trades in the future that include some of the young core and 1st Rd picks not a few late 2nds... who gives a shit about the 2nds... If Bennett and Zeller play well then they will get minutes

 

[mrbeaks]

What's with all the "he's just like Zeller" talk? You wouldn't have said that a few days ago.

Zeller has a few good games and all of a sudden he's as good as Hawes. Good grief.

Obviously he's not as good as Hawes (yet), but I get the frustration. The Cavs were in a weird place at the deadline. They're on a six-game winning streak sparked in part by improved play from Zeller, Bennett and the now-traded Sims. Tinkering like this when things are going well could be a mistake; though the team as composed pre-Hawes might've fallen short of the eight seed, at least they would've had time to grow as a cohesive unit w/ the only expectation being "play hard every minute on the floor". And then they'd have a lottery pick in the most talent-packed draft in years.

If AV is out for a prolonged period, I'm not too worried about Hawes killing Zeller's development, but Bennett's minutes could certainly go down. Then again, if the Cavs earn the eight-seed after a competitive second half of the season, they'll hopefully feel good about themselves and carry that into next season.

The arguments for and against the trade are equally compelling to me. Right now, I think development is more important than wins - and I do think the former is possible without the latter so long as the shit effort from earlier this season doesn't return. I just think, more than anything, the Cavs kinda got screwed by circumstance w/r/t weak draft classes.

 

[Ohio]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Hmmm im the only white boy left in this team))</p>— Marcin Gortat (@MGortat) <a href="https://twitter.com/MGortat/statuses/436610216160153600">February 20, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

After Vesley being traded :chuckles:

LOL

 

[Douglar]

The trade might have made sense if it was the first move in a series of moves, or if there was a locker room problem with those guys, but by itself, it was very weak. I'm not sure it helps the team build next summer, I doubt it helps the team win this year, it certainly won't free up minutes to develop the young players. Not as fan. Best I can say is that at least Hawes contract is expiring.

I was not a fan of Gee and Clark on the court, but they were very useful contracts for trades and could get traded up though July. Hawes, not so much.

Why is Jack still here?

 

[Kouki]

Because no one wanted his contract unless they were giving up an equally long/expensive contract. There were teams interested, just not in his contract, and they went with different options.

 

[Soar]

Why is Jack still here?

I'm going to guess that if the Terry and Thompson rumors were any indication of what we were being offered, it didn't make much sense to move him just to move him.

Hopefully he will be easier to move in the offseason.

I just wish he would play better. He isn't this bad.

 

[CleFan22]

Why is Jack still here?

Because our previous GM gave Jack a contract that he is not even close to living up to. Multiple year deal for a player that isn't performing.

Hard to move contract with a guy that isn't playing well.

 

[shoes22]

Because our previous GM gave Jack a contract that he is not even close to living up to. Multiple year deal for a player that isn't performing.

That's a bit misleading the way you framed this...GM signed Jack to be the long-term backup guard, a role which he is competent in.
Under Brown, Jack is also asked to play a very different role and style of game than he's used to playing. But these things are fixable. I'm sure the rest of the year, you'll see Jack improve as a player. Even next, if he's still somehow on the team. You've already seen Jack be productive and pick up the slack while Dion (and now Miles) have been injured.
There's really just two huge developments that have made Jack expendable. The first is how good Dion is at leading the second unit and the bench scoring. The second is the emergence of Matthew Dellavadova as a fantastic and cheap backup guard. If either one of those things didn't happen, you could make a solid case for keeping Jack around. The roster situation being what it is is the main reason why Jack is the odd man out.
I wouldn't blame the GM for that though, because neither one of those things could have been predicted last summer.

 

[Kizzle]

everybody wants an Andy trade. But I think NEXT year is the most value Andy will have. You know why? Because hes still going to be Andy AND his contract will be worth only 4.5 million. Think about that for a second. If teams are asking about Andy now at 9 million, they'll be beating down our doors for Andy at 4.5 million. PLAYOFF teams with young talent and expiring contracts will be begging us to trade them Andy. And his deal will definitely help facilitate a deal for a younger player. At 4.5 mil you don't even care if the guy is injury prone that's a bargain you cant pass up

 

["Boobie" Gibson]

It's not hard to understand.

The Pacers got more for less. That makes our deal not as good.....

You're a grumpy old man.

 

[Fuggles]

Summary of this thread today:

Why couldn't we make any trades that weren't available?

Stupid Cans.

 

[Rich]

The trade might have made sense if it was the first move in a series of moves, or if there was a locker room problem with those guys, but by itself, it was very weak. I'm not sure it helps the team build next summer, I doubt it helps the team win this year, it certainly won't free up minutes to develop the young players. Not as fan. Best I can say is that at least Hawes contract is expiring.

I was not a fan of Gee and Clark on the court, but they were very useful contracts for trades and could get traded up though July. Hawes, not so much.

Why is Jack still here?

I'm with you. I waited to see if we would move Varejao or Zeller in another deal, thinking that was the plan with the Hawes move. But by itself, I just don't understand it. He's not as good as Varejao, and Zeller's development is just simply more important than whatever marginal (and it is marginal) improvement Hawes might be on the court.

 

[Nathan S]

Summary of this thread today:

Why couldn't we make any trades that weren't available?

Stupid Cans.

As I understand it, other teams were come to us with offers for Jack that would, at the very least, get some salary off our books. When we ignored them they moved on and we were left scrambling at the deadline and ultimately failed to find any trade at all. That's just a massive fuckup on our part.

 

[Rich]

You're a grumpy old man.

No. I've given a lot of specific reasons I'm against the deal.

You, however, seem to be hanging your arguments on "we need to win" w/o actually explaining how Hawes helps do that and "2nd rounders aren't that important." That's just blind faith.