Trade Discussions - Pistons/Wolves/Cavs

[Gimme Some Mo]

If it's easy to find a guy like Varejao, why would anyone give us anything for him? How many guys in the league right now are "like" Anderson Varejao?

Just because I say "like" Andy, doesn't mean I said "as good as Andy." It also didn't mean they are the exact same player. It just means they do some things the same.

There are players that offer many of the same things Andy does. It doesn't mean Andy is a bad player. The point of my whole post is that it is a lot harder to find a star player than it is to find a good role player. Based on that, if the Cavs feel Williams is a star, I wouldn't be upset with trading Andy at all.


Just some guys off the top of my head that are similar to Andy (better in some ways, worse in others) in ways Haslem, K. Mart, Noah, Taj Gibson, Luis Scola, Camby, Tyson Chandler, Gortat, Okafor.

All of those guys are mobile bigs that hustle and rebound. Most of them also play very good all around defense.

I think Andy is a solid player. A great role player. But to say he is as valuable as a star player is just stupid. (not directed at you specifically, I don't know your views on that).

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

no andy is a great role player, and a good basketball player. that said you do not trade andy to move up 2 fucking spots in the draft so you can take a guy that may one day be able to replace him.

and if you are sure that williams is going to be a star then you draft him in front of kyrie, you dont use andy to move from the 4 to the 2nd when you can probably get a top 15 pick and another player for him.

Bad logic IMO. If they view both Kyrie and Williams as stars, why not go after both? Just because they view Williams as a star doesn't mean they don't think Kyrie is a star as well.

Also, it isn't just about "moving up 2 spots." When you say it like that, it doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. It's about moving up get Williams. It's not like we are moving up from #20 to #18 just to make sure we get somebody. It is about we are either going to end up with Williams (who in this scenario we are talking about him as a star) or not moving up and drafting a guy like Jonas/Kanter who MAYBE we aren't that high on at all.

Just to put it in perspective. Say the Cavs think Williams can turn into a star. A guy like Paul Piece in his prime. Somebody like that.

Do you trade Varejao and Kanter/Jonas for a 20 year old Paul Pierce? For your sake, I hope you say yes.

 

[440]

Cavs out: Varejao, Hickson, #32
Cavs in: #2, #20, Rip

Detroit out: Rip, #8
Detroit in: Hickson

Wolves out: #2, #20
Wolves in: Varejao, #8, #32

Something along those lines. Fillers would need to be added.

Irving (1)
Eyenga
Singleton (20)
Williams (2)
Kanter (4)

 

[davedugan43]

Cavs out: Varejao, Hickson, 32
Cavs in: 2, 20, Rip

Detroit out: Rip, 8
Detroit in: Hickson

Wolves out: 2, 20
Wolves in: Varejao, 8, 32

Something along those lines. Fillers would need to be added.

Irving (1)
Eyenga
Singleton (20)
Williams (2)
Kanter (4)

Would praise Grant if this were to go down, but won't happen.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

I just don't understand why everyone wants to trade JJ. It was basically his second season playing. His first season being more than a pick and role player with LeBron.

In the last 46 games of the season he averaged 17 and 12. I am not sure people realize that. Do you guys realize how many PF's in the NBA put up those #'s? Not many.

The guy is 22 years old, still hasn't added a jumpshot or have any go to post moves and he still averaged 17 a game. If/when he adds that to his game, he is going to be a VERY good offensive player and he has already shown he can be a beast on the glass when he plays motivated.

 

[440]

I just don't understand why everyone wants to trade JJ. It was basically his second season playing. His first season being more than a pick and role player with LeBron.

In the last 46 games of the season he averaged 17 and 12. I am not sure people realize that. Do you guys realize how many PF's in the NBA put up those #'s? Not many.

I just can't get over how bad his hands are.

 

[Nightperson]

Hickson > #8
25 Million > Rip

Awful deal imo.

 

[Seiklis]

Hickson > #8
25 Million > Rip

Awful deal imo.

I'd only think about it if Kanter fell....also this is most likely going to be the last year Gilbert will be able to do something like this with the incoming hard cap....he might be willing to be a bit more liberal due to that.

I'm smelling a trade for 13 involving Sessions and us taking Childress off Phoenix's hands whom we can then waive with amnesty

 

[CleveRocks]

This trade is not a bad deal really. It does commit us to this particular class, and a rebuild, but it would be hard to argue that the two partners dont get better certainty. It may be that the wolves would want a hair more, or to keep their 20 pick.
But would be ok with letting boobie or Gibson into that deal to make it go, or throwing in a second round or foregoing the 20...

We would certainly be a lottery team next year, and we would still have Jamison and Rip and Davis as expiring assets two years from now. So in 2013 we would be a monster. Worst case you have Irving Williams kanter/jonas v plus next years lottery and whatever you can get for baron rip and antawn...

That's if nothing else like a jj or a Gibson comes of it...

Sign me up
l

Cavs out: Varejao, Hickson, #32
Cavs in: #2, #20, Rip

Detroit out: Rip, #8
Detroit in: Hickson

Wolves out: #2, #20
Wolves in: Varejao, #8, #32

Something along those lines. Fillers would need to be added.

Irving (1)
Eyenga
Singleton (20)
Williams (2)
Kanter (4)

 

[Zone]

I'd only think about it if Kanter fell....also this is most likely going to be the last year Gilbert will be able to do something like this with the incoming hard cap....he might be willing to be a bit more liberal due to that.

I'm smelling a trade for 13 involving Sessions and us taking Childress off Phoenix's hands whom we can then waive with amnesty

I keep wanting to say Hickson and filler for PHX 2011 and 2012 (protected) #1 picks and Childress

 

[bigjmac0815]

WindhorstESPN Brian Windhorst
2 players you can talk to Cavs about now: Ramon Sessions & JJ Hickson. Andy Varejao not available for just a draft pick.

I feel like he could of been the Cavs beat writer in South Beach......doing a better job than whoever does it now

 

[*L-Train*]

SamAmicoFSO

Cavs source says team has not floated JJ Hickson's name for draft pick. "That comes from people who aren't dialed in to team," source says.

And before you ask, T-Wolves have expressed zero interest in Hickson or Varejao. They want All-Star if they give up No. 2

Mike Brown and Lakers, on other hand, would love to somehow get Varejao. And will try

One other thing: Wolves know they don't have to trade pick. They will take Williams and be happy if you don't knock their socks off.

update from The Bullshit Whisperer

 

[bigjmac0815]

Didnt know where to post this

SamAmicoFSO Sam The Bullshit Whisperer Mike Brown and Lakers, on other hand, would love to somehow get Varejao. And will try

 

[Green Lantern]

SamAmicoFSO Sam The Bullshit Whisperer Mike Brown and Lakers, on other hand, would love to somehow get Varejao. And will try

I could make so many jokes about this..Mr.Potato head wants to make a deal..they want Andy..lovely...just what are they gonna give up?

 

[sam_slam911]

Whatever way you look at it, it really seems like the Cavs are the team the most interested in the 2nd pick. We have the pieces to get it, just will probably depend how much we value Varejao and whether we can get anything else in return as well as the pick.