Trade the 8th pick? Where? Why? How?

[inliner311]

If it came down to it and was a stall mate... Kevin Love and #8 for PG and 2 seconds (18' and 19') you do it?

What about klove and #8 for PG and 2019 okc first?

Just honestly we know Kevin ain't a true #2 option on a championship team. And could be the last chance to keep LeBron . the 2019 first might not be bad from OKC because either Paul and LeBron stay and we do whatever with that pick. Or they bolt and we use that pick in regards to rebuild ...I personally think PG means so much more then KLove. Younger, makes his own shot. Doesn't get the injuries year in year out etc.

I mean hell, if LeBron leaves I see us doing a full rebuild and letting Kevin walk anyway. So is #8 worth PG and possibly keeping LeBron and maybe 2 2nds or maybe a future first?!

I think some people fail to see that PG13 basically holds all the cards in this situation. He has to be willing to take a pay cut, which is a big ask. He then has to tell OKC he is leaving and is willing to opt in and trade only to Cleveland or he just walks in free agency to another team. How does OKC have any leverage in this situation? They would be really happy if they get Love back in the deal or #8 or #13 or whatever of value we are willing to give them. They will be over the cap even if PG13 leaves, an expiring gives them another trade chip.

For the people who want Melo in the deal, remember he isn't going to like a normal expiring contract, he still has a no trade clause in his deal. OKC can't deal him without his approval. Whatever team trades for him inherits that no trade clause. It really limits his trade value. If we offered actual expirings for him, it better be a straight up deal with no picks or assets, or we get a pick or asset back from OKC. If things go south Melo isn't approving a trade to a bad team. Last time around he was only going to approve a trade to 3 teams, we were one of them. His list could be down to just Houston at the trade deadline.

 

[inliner311]

For reference the CP3 trade to Houston with his opt in and trade was essentially Sam Dekker, Beverley, Lou Williams, and the 30th pick. The rest were non-guaranteed or partly guaranteed contracts.

If we were using it as a base for a PG13 trade, What would be the equivalent from the Cavs roster and assets? Personally I think if we include Love or the 8th pick it is way more than what Houston gave up.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

You guys are wasting time... the moment to trade this pick is long gone and it was before the lottery odds were defined.

LBJ made his decision to no commit, Cavs reacted and made their decision to not fully invest on his staying. So he's not staying, in all likelihood.. move on

The time to trade the pick was in October.

 

[CleveRocks]

Giving up too much imo.

Rather trade TT instead of Love.

And, then trade Love for a wing.

I dont see Memphis doing it.. Conley and Gasol for hill TT and 8..

Gasol, is better than love. He cant be bullied, is defensively solid at the 5. Love is best at the 4, and lebron is a better choice there. And there are better role players there..

Conley healthy is better than hill. Also defensively solid.

I dont see us as being that far away.. the strategy to beat us is to grab lebron and tackle him. That wont work against a Gasol Conley pairing..

On the negative side both Conley and Gasol are at the end of thier careers..

 

[czvo]

My Cavs ideal summer:

Flip the pick for #12 from the Clippers for DeAndre.
Send #12 to Charlotte for Kemba Walker and Marvin Williams (Clarkson+salary)

Try to flip Nance and Zizic for late or future firsts.

Trade whatever we have left minus Kevin Love for Paul George (opted in):

Cedi, Hill, Marvin Williams, (maybe) Korver, result of Nance trade, result of Zizic trade, and JR Smith.. Taking back George and Melo's bad contract.

Send Melo to the Clippers (as salary for Jordan)....

OKC gets Cedi + hopefully a first rounder, (maybe) Kyle Korver, Marvin Williams and George Hill; while dumping Melo. Basically, a bunch of 3 point shooting role-players to put around Westbrook.

Hornets get their pick for Kemba.

Clippers take back 1 year of Melo and his bird rights to fill seats during a mini-rebuild.

So, wait, who's left on the team? I read this three times and couldn't wrap my head around it

 

[gourimoko]

So, wait, who's left on the team? I read this three times and couldn't wrap my head around it

Left? LeBron, Love, Hood, Green, Thompson and Calderon... We'd likely be forced to try and re-sign Rodney Hood and hope for the best, but that's another conversation, I think.

But It seems like a lot of salary, but in fact, it's actually not that much. It's a three team deal with us facilitating a Melo trade for OKC.

You can think of it thusly:

Base of the trade:
1) OKC trades Melo for Jordan straight-up
2) Simultaneously, OKC trades George + Jordan to Cleveland
3) Cleveland needs to send out at least ~$36M
4) That's Hill, Smith, and Cedi

Sweetener:
5) In addition, the Cavs could send Korver and take back Patrick Patterson.
6) In addition, the Cavs could send Williams from Charlotte.
7) In addition, the Cavs could try to net additional picks by trading Nance/Zizic and sending them to OKC.

That's the basic framework of a three-team trade with OKC, LAC, and CLE.

You add to that a trade of #12+Clarkson for Kemba; with the additional sweetener of taking back Williams and MKG. If Williams goes to OKC simultaneously, then you only need to send out Kyle Korver to take back MKG.

If you executed the base of these trades, you'd end up with basically a new team:

Kemba, George, James, Love, Jordan
Calderon, Hood, MKG?, Green, Thompson, (Williams? / Korver?) + MLE

.. what is sub-optimal here is that I've assumed we traded Nance and Zizic for a first and second; but we're stuck with Thompson. I'd much rather trade Thompson for an expiring contract and a late first but .. I don't think that's possible.

 

[czvo]

LeBron and Love...

It seems like a lot of salary, but in fact, it's actually not that much. It's a three team deal with us facilitating a Melo trade for OKC.

You can think of it thusly:

Base of the trade:
1) OKC trades Melo for Jordan straight-up
2) Simultaneously, OKC trades George + Jordan to Cleveland
3) Cleveland needs to send out at least ~$36M
4) That's Hill, Smith, and Cedi

Sweetener:
5) In addition, the Cavs could send Korver and take back Patrick Patterson.
6) In addition, the Cavs could send Williams from Charlotte.
7) In addition, the Cavs could try to net additional picks by trading Nance/Zizic and sending them to OKC.

That's the basic framework of a three-team trade with OKC, LAC, and CLE.

You add to that a trade of #12+Clarkson for Kemba; with the additional sweetener of taking back Williams and MKG. If Williams goes to OKC simultaneously, then you only need to send out Kyle Korver tot take back MKG.

If you executed the base of these trades, you'd end up with basically a new team:

Kemba, George, James, Love, Jordan
Calderon, Hood, MKG, Williams?, Korver? + MLE

No, I mean who's left on the team after it's all said and done?

 

[gourimoko]

No, I mean who's left on the team after it's all said and done?

See my edit above...

Kemba,
George,
James,
Love,
Jordan,
Calderon,
Hood,
Green,
Thompson
With some combination of: MKG, Williams, Korver
And obviously we'd have the tMLE and the vet min exceptions.

 

[czvo]

See my edit above...

Kemba,
George,
James,
Love,
Jordan,
Calderon,
Hood,
Green,
Thompson
With some combination of: MKG, Williams, Korver
And obviously we'd have the tMLE and the vet min exceptions.

That's a very interesting roster. I'd love for them to hold onto Marvin Williams since he can play the 3-4 and knock down threes. I think LBJ would love playing next to that guy. Would also want them to see if Channing would be willing to come back. Definitely need more shooting on the bench.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Base of the trade:
1) OKC trades Melo for Jordan straight-up
2) Simultaneously, OKC trades George + Jordan to Cleveland
3) Cleveland needs to send out at least ~$36M
4) That's Hill, Smith, and Cedi

It's an idea. It just doesn't seem very likely that all (or any, really) of the following happens:

1) Jordan opts in rather than hitting free agency (if he even has an option)
2) George opts in rather than hitting free agency
3) The Clippers would trade #12 for Carmelo Anthony
4) The Thunder would trade Paul George and Carmelo Anthony for #8 and guaranteed salaries that put them in the luxury tax again.

 

[godfather]

Would love to net Jordan and Paul. That would change things around fast.

 

[Nathan S]

@gourimoko, why do you like DJ over Nance?

 

[gourimoko]

It's an idea. It just doesn't seem very likely that all (or any, really) of the following happens:

1) Jordan opts in rather than hitting free agency (if he even has an option)
2) George opts in rather than hitting free agency
3) The Clippers would trade #12 for Carmelo Anthony
4) The Thunder would trade Paul George and Carmelo Anthony for #8 and guaranteed salaries that put them in the luxury tax again.

Sure, it's a long-shot, but let me address the four points you raise:

1) Jordan opting in, IMHO, is actually quite possible. DJ has fallen off a bit, he's approaching 30, and he'll need to find a team that's looking for a $24M big man. And with cap space being what it is this offseason, what team is that?

In might be in Jordan's best interest to opt-in and be traded with his Bird Rights if he can work out a handshake agreement, like a 3-year fully guaranteed deal around $80-90M.

So I would put to you that it's more likely that Jordan would seek an opt-in, trade and then look for a midseason extension rather than test free agency. I do not think Jordan is looking to be a free agent this offseason if he can avoid it.

2) George opting in is less likely; however, George's sacrificed salary would be equivalent to what Durant, James and CP3 all gave up to go to the Warriors, Heat, and Rockets respectively. The calculus is roughly the same... So from George's standpoint, what is it that he wants? He's 28.. and his next team will be the team he plays out his prime years.

.. does he really want that to be the Lakers?

3) This Clippers pick swap was based on the proposed idea that they would trade #13 and DeAndre for #8 and Tristan Thompson + JR Smith. If we thought that deal worked for the Clippers, and most of us did; then this deal is BY FAR better for the Clippers. Melo has only one-year left, Thompson has 2, and JR Smith has $5M guaranteed in 2019-20.

So why wouldn't the Clippers trade DeAndre Jordan and #12 for #8 if Jordan is going to walk anyway, and all they have to do is take back one-year of salary? It'd be crazy for them not to do this deal.

4) We're not trading the pick for George and Melo. That's actually not the deal I proposed. OKC is getting Cedi and whatever firsts we could round up for Nance/Zizic, as well as Hill, and Smith and potentially Korver. They're also getting out of Melo's deal (he's a negative asset on their part).

The reason this works is because George would walk in free agency. So OKC is faced with (1) having George walk and paying Melo to be distraught and upset; or (2) trading George out of the conference, Melo off the team, and getting back some useful assets in the process. This makes sense from a sign-and-trade standpoint.

 

[sleepmaster]

If Porter and Bamba are gone before #8 than I could go for something like this. Lebron wants PG13 and wanted the Cavs to trade for DJ before the deadline, so if the goal is to keep Lebron, getting two players he likes whose values went down after the trade deadline makes sense.

 

[gourimoko]

@gourimoko, why do you like DJ over Nance?

Because I think DeAndre could get the Cavs 12 PPG / 13 TRB / 2 BPG @ > .700 FG% and do so consistently. I think Jordan is a decent rim protector, and has veteran experience that this team desperately needs.

I'm not fond of his contract, obviously. But our team needs a defensive anchor at the center position most of the season, and we just don't have it.

To my mind, Jordan would be definitely worth kicking the tires on to see if he, alongside Kemba and George on the perimeter, could reinvent the Cavs defense.