Trading Tristan?

[pinoycavsfan]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Fact is if the Cavs trade thompson because they will need another equal caliber guy to contend.

trading thompson for a guyike love is not good enough they will need to do more and this season.

then, who is good enough for TT?

are we overrating TT too much just like how stoudemire was not good enough for JJ?

 

[Cavatt]

Re: Tristan Thompson

then, who is good enough for TT?

are we overrating TT too much just like how stoudemire was not good enough for JJ?

JJ and TT are 2 different players. I would not trade TT for Stat right now, but I would for Casspi lol.

 

[Rich]

Re: Tristan Thompson

then, who is good enough for TT?

are we overrating TT too much just like how stoudemire was not good enough for JJ?

This is to the point of ban worthiness. Over and over and over again with this. Cavs were ready to deal. Phx wasn't.

Also, anyone who was weary about that deal, like me, was completely due to the fact that Amare was in the final year of his deal. Needed a guarantee he would extend. Otherwise, you could end up like the Sixers are about to end up when Bynum walks.

 

[STAT]

Re: Tristan Thompson

This is to the point of ban worthiness. Over and over and over again with this. Cavs were ready to deal. Phx wasn't.

Also, anyone who was weary about that deal, like me, was completely due to the fact that Amare was in the final year of his deal. Needed a guarantee he would extend. Otherwise, you could end up like the Sixers are about to end up when Bynum walks.

I feel like there is a knee-related joke here.

 

[CleveRocks]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Says the guy who wants to throw max money at Al Jefferson...

Which is better than throwing the money, the talent AND a first rounder at Love. Throwing max money at Al Jefferson makes me an average GM ithe league, because we all agree he will get max money, even with Kahn out. He will get max money because he is a 6'10 inch, 289 lb center with a PER of 21, and who played in 78 games last season. Paying him max money is not unreasonable. Paying love max money is not unreasonable either.

Paying max money and selling the future of your team to get Love, who played 18 games last season is Kahn territory.

I was pointing out that all of the arguments for Love not being a liability in the locker room or on the defensive end of the court, also apply to Jefferson, and I do not see such difference in the two that i am willing to throw in Tristan and first rounder, much less the two first rounders which have been suggested by some.

What puzzles me is that the team need is clearly at center and small forward. There is not a power forward problem to be solved. If TT stays on the current trend his production will improve again, and he is already a net positive for us even when his front court pairing is primarily Tyler Zeller. We have a high probability this drft to pick up a decent small forward, and probably a mid first rounder center. So we hire a max free agent center vet to go with the core team. My argumnt is we contend. Set a team with Kyrie, Dion, Love, Gee and Tyler Zeller against a team with Kyrie, Dion, Porter, TT, and Al Jefferson, and it is not even close.

 

[Rich]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Yea....I'm starting to wonder why we'd go for Love over Jefferson. Is the talent difference between the two really that great?

 

[Los216]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Yea....I'm starting to wonder why we'd go for Love over Jefferson. Is the talent difference between the two really that great?

Are you serious?

Kevin Love is the best PF in the game. He avg more points and reb last season than any season Jefferson has had 26ppg 15rpg
He's on the Olympic team for a reason and oh yeah he's only 24.
In what way is Jefferson better?

 

[oasis05]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Al Jefferson is another Dion Waiters. Has to have the ball. A black hole. Love is a complementary player. Doesn't need the ball, can spread the floor, good passer. Love is a team player, Jefferson is a me player.

 

[Los216]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Al Jefferson is another Dion Waiters. Has to have the ball. A black hole. Love is a complementary player. Doesn't need the ball, can spread the floor, good passer. Love is a team player, Jefferson is a me player.

Agreed. I hate when our fans over value our players. Just like earlier in the season before Andy got hurt (right on schedule) all the talk was we cant trade Andy he's the heart and soul of the team we won't get equal value for him etc...Hell even when Luke Walton had a nice stretch of games all the talk was oh we need to bring Luke back he'll be a needed piece for the future

Now TT has improved his game from his rookie season to his second season. Wow a project player being better after playing a full season. I'm happy for TT's improvement but most posters on here think we should hold on to him in favor of Kevin Love

 

[mAo_mAo]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Are you serious?

Kevin Love is the best PF in the game. He avg more points and reb last season than any season Jefferson has had 26ppg 15rpg
He's on the Olympic team for a reason and oh yeah he's only 24.
In what way is Jefferson better?

Jefferson is a post up player. Love is not. In a playoff situation you need to have that guy that will give you easy buckets down low when the game slows down. Most of the championship teams have those type of players (Duncan/Nowitzki/Lebron/Pau/KG) . Al and Love are atrocious defenders but Al is bigger so it is an edge for him. Al will probably just require less assets just because he is a free agent.

If Love is the best PF in the game why can he not carry them to the playoffs? Even for an 8th seed?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Re: Tristan Thompson

Agreed. I hate when our fans over value our players. Just like earlier in the season before Andy got hurt (right on schedule) all the talk was we cant trade Andy he's the heart and soul of the team we won't get equal value for him etc...Hell even when Luke Walton had a nice stretch of games all the talk was oh we need to bring Luke back he'll be a needed piece for the future

Now TT has improved his game from his rookie season to his second season. Wow a project player being better after playing a full season. I'm happy for TT's improvement but most posters on here think we should hold on to him in favor of Kevin Love

Pretty sure absolutely no one said the part in bold.

 

[Revenged25]

So who is the post up player that can get easy buckets on the Cavs? How does Tristan do against the likes of Duncan/Nowitzki/LeBron(Bosh)/Pau/KG that he would face in the playoffs? Two of those 5 players you named are at their best when they are near the basket so they are able to get blocks when defending in Duncan, Pau, and KG. Now with Tristan you are effectively keeping them near the basket for when Irving/Waiters drive in for them to get swatted. With Love you make those 3 guys have to leave the paint and move towards the perimeter. Also Duncan and KG play big minutes at center for their respective teams as well, just saying. So what Love does is give us a player that let's us get our easy baskets down low by letting our two best slashers have a clear path to the basket.

So let's say we add in the value of Tristan huge strides to be a 15/10 player to end the year and a good defender, we slightly downgrade Love for his larger contract, coming off an injury, and issue with the team currently, he's still going to cost more than just Tristan, and rightfully so. So let's say the trade ends up becoming Tristan, Sacramento's 1st, and Mephis' 1st. You might think it's a lot but it's two future 1st and truthfully we can't draft all these players and expect to keep/pay/play them. The reason you acquire assets is to use them to make blockbuster trades. So we get to keep all our picks this year, which if you all want to talk about building a young team, which Love is still young at only 24, we can still do that. Let's make some more trades.

#3-5. Otto Porter, SF Georgetown
Trade #19, both 2nds, our 2014 1st, top 10 protected for a pick #7-9.
7-9. Alex Len, C Maryland

Love takes a bit of money but also takes some money off with the Tristan trade. We use the extra money to bring in some old faces that know the system. I think Shaun Livingstaun is going to want a bigger payday than we will want to give him as he was a good depth guy but not worth big minutes. How about Mo Williams instead? Has experience with Mike Brown, can play minutes at both the PG and SG positions, good 3 pt shooter, a little undersized and underwhelming defense, but not any worse than Livingstaun. Then for big man depth, the obvious candidate is Greg Oden as he'll come cheap. We keep Ellington.

PG-Kyrie Irving/Mo Williams
SG-Dion Waiters/Wayne Ellington
SF-Otto Porter/Alonzo Gee
PF-Kevin Love/Anderson Varejao
C-Alex Len/Greg Oden/Tyler Zeller

Looks like a pretty damn good line-up to me. Also although Len isn't a great scorer in the post right now, he fits with Irving/Waiters and Oden was very good offensively in the post both offensively and defensively when healthy.

 

[Cavatt]

I think it is really risky to trade TT this year. What if he comes back with a jumpshot? What if his numbers keep improving? Everyone already underestimated him once. I don't think he can improve as dramatically next year, but if he did he would get the MIP award for sure. Al Jefferson wasn't traded until after his 3rd year. Yeah a guy like JJ would have likely netted the team more if they had traded him his second year, but I think we can all agree that TT has more value now than JJ did then. You have to get a grasp on his ceiling, and I am not sure that is very apparent yet.

I know people think free agency is fool's gold for a team like the Cavs, but the Cavs are going to have a pretty good pitch simply from the capspace they have that others don't. Might as well kick some tires before you trade away what is becoming the most attractive and cheapest trade asset the Cavs have.

You also basically have to concentrate on the draft, then free agency, then consider trades. Figure the first 2 out or you won't know what you need from the 3rd.

 

[Stark]

So who is the post up player that can get easy buckets on the Cavs? How does Tristan do against the likes of Duncan/Nowitzki/LeBron(Bosh)/Pau/KG that he would face in the playoffs? Two of those 5 players you named are at their best when they are near the basket so they are able to get blocks when defending in Duncan, Pau, and KG. Now with Tristan you are effectively keeping them near the basket for when Irving/Waiters drive in for them to get swatted. With Love you make those 3 guys have to leave the paint and move towards the perimeter. Also Duncan and KG play big minutes at center for their respective teams as well, just saying. So what Love does is give us a player that let's us get our easy baskets down low by letting our two best slashers have a clear path to the basket.

So let's say we add in the value of Tristan huge strides to be a 15/10 player to end the year and a good defender, we slightly downgrade Love for his larger contract, coming off an injury, and issue with the team currently, he's still going to cost more than just Tristan, and rightfully so. So let's say the trade ends up becoming Tristan, Sacramento's 1st, and Mephis' 1st. You might think it's a lot but it's two future 1st and truthfully we can't draft all these players and expect to keep/pay/play them. The reason you acquire assets is to use them to make blockbuster trades. So we get to keep all our picks this year, which if you all want to talk about building a young team, which Love is still young at only 24, we can still do that. Let's make some more trades.

#3-5. Otto Porter, SF Georgetown
Trade #19, both 2nds, our 2014 1st, top 10 protected for a pick #7-9.
7-9. Alex Len, C Maryland

Love takes a bit of money but also takes some money off with the Tristan trade. We use the extra money to bring in some old faces that know the system. I think Shaun Livingstaun is going to want a bigger payday than we will want to give him as he was a good depth guy but not worth big minutes. How about Mo Williams instead? Has experience with Mike Brown, can play minutes at both the PG and SG positions, good 3 pt shooter, a little undersized and underwhelming defense, but not any worse than Livingstaun. Then for big man depth, the obvious candidate is Greg Oden as he'll come cheap. We keep Ellington.

PG-Kyrie Irving/Mo Williams
SG-Dion Waiters/Wayne Ellington
SF-Otto Porter/Alonzo Gee
PF-Kevin Love/Anderson Varejao
C-Alex Len/Greg Oden/Tyler Zeller

Looks like a pretty damn good line-up to me. Also although Len isn't a great scorer in the post right now, he fits with Irving/Waiters and Oden was very good offensively in the post both offensively and defensively when healthy.

You don't think that Mo Williams isn't going to want at least double of whatever Livingston thinks he is worth?

 

[Revenged25]

I think Mo Williams is a better player than Livingstaun and would be worth closer to what he's asking for than Livingstaun will. That's all. I mean he's a great depth guy, but we need someone for when Irving goes down. Sure he might not have the same health issues with proper training this offseason, heck some of it might've just been them playing it safe knowing they were tanking anyways, but fact is he's missed a lot of time. Would you feel more confident, knowing that we just made a big trade to get Kevin Love, with Livingstaun running the offense while Irving is on the sidelines injured or Mo Williams running the offense. I'd much rather have Williams. Not to mention I think Mo Williams is more willing to take a back-up role in Cleveland than the other FA PGs. Who else would we get that is good enough to be a starter for stretches, but willing to be a back-up? That's the only reason I chose Mo Williams over Livingstaun or others.

@Cavett-The Cavs have pretty much said they aren't going to jeopardize 2014 FA. That being said, where is the real strength in the NBA when it comes to the front court right now? The PF position or the center position? Especially defensively? The obvious answer is the PF position. So having a player that even if he develops a jumper, still won't be out to the perimeter, will keep defensive PFs in the paint is a bad thing. Nothing against Tristan he's one of the defensive PFs you want to have to play in the paint, but when you take them out to the perimeter because they have to respect a PF's outside shooting, like teams have to with Dirk and Love, then it makes them less effective and let's their slashers be that much more effective. Do you really think that if Dirk was Duncan the Mavericks would've been as effective against the Heat? It was the fact that Dirk, although a subpar defender his entire career, was able to take a defender out of the paint and let his slashers get into the paint for easy buckets consistently as they had to respect his outside shooting. That's the same as Love.

For Dirk's long career he averaged 22.6/8.2/2.6/.9/.9. Love over the past 3 seasons, granted this pas season was only 18 games, 22.2/14.4/2.3/.7/.4 (ppg/rpg/apg/spg/bpg). He can improve those numbers defensively with more emphasis by a coaching staff, but his offensive numbers match-up with Dirk, and much better defensively. So you take a guy like Love, you put him on a team with two elite slashers, you get a guy that can protect the paint and also step out as well, and you get a defensive 3, this team will be dominant.