Your 2018 Cleveland Indians

[Chris]

Zero. Wins are irrelevant now. What he needs to do is continue to pile up WAR and put in 5 more very good/excellent years. The HOF is also a popularity contest, so spending the next years of his career in Cleveland will hurt without overwhelming numbers. Where his next stop is will also be an important factor. Hopefully he stays healthy and keeps it up because he has really had an excellent 5 year run.

Meh. If he keeps at his current pace he is in the HoF easily.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Zero. Wins are irrelevant now. What he needs to do is continue to pile up WAR and put in 5 more very good/excellent years. The HOF is also a popularity contest, so spending the next years of his career in Cleveland will hurt without overwhelming numbers. Where his next stop is will also be an important factor. Hopefully he stays healthy and keeps it up because he has really had an excellent 5 year run.

Yeah literally none of this is true

 

[Chris]

Yeah literally none of this is true

Macbdog used to be a really good poster.

 

[macbdog]

Meh. If he keeps at his current pace he is in the HoF easily.

Johan Santana had a dominant run for 5 years of the Steroid Era, 51 WAR and has no chance at the HOF. Corey is in the middle of his 5th year and has 29 WAR. If Johan want good enough then I don't see how Corey is yet. I don't think any of you actually watched Santana pitch, because he was absolutely outstanding back before strikeouts became cheap and teams realized they could shift opposing batters into the ground.

And if you don't think the HOF is a popularity contest, then you are apparently all for Belle and Lofton staying out and think Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith are in because they were so much better than Omar.

 

[Chris]

Johan Santana had a dominant run for 5 years of the Steroid Era, 51 WAR and has no chance at the HOF. Corey is in the middle of his 5th year and has 29 WAR. If Johan want good enough then I don't see how Corey is yet. I don't think any of you actually watched Santana pitch, because he was absolutely outstanding back before strikeouts became cheap.

And if you don't think the HOF is a popularity contest, then you are apparently all for Belle and Lofton staying out and think Phil Rizzuto and Ozzie Smith are in because they were so much better than Omar.

That's a huge fucking stretch assuming nobody on this forum watched Johan Santana pitch. Like, fuck.

If Kluber continues on this pace for a few years, HoF easily.

 

[macbdog]

That's a huge fucking stretch assuming nobody on this forum watched Johan Santana pitch. Like, fuck.

If Kluber continues on this pace for a few years, HoF easily.

If you saw him, you wouldn't be looking at his HOF chances as zero yet think Kluber, whose numbers are not up to Johans, is a shoo-in. Kluber has a ways to go and is already 32. Voters were leery of admitting Sanford Braun b/c his dominant period was only 5 years. Corey is still 20 WAR even behind him. He has a ways to go to be a HOFer. That standard is high and should remain high.

 

[sportscoach]

That's a huge fucking stretch assuming nobody on this forum watched Johan Santana pitch. Like, fuck.

If Kluber continues on this pace for a few years, HoF easily.

@macbdog is actually right at the end of the day. Kluber has Hall of Fame stuff, but his numbers won't be good enough by current standards to get himself into the Hall of Fame. He has 82 career wins at the moment in his age 32 campaign. He will have to get another 120+ wins in his career to even be considered into the Hall of Fame. He would need an average of twelve per season over the next ten years.

Kluber didnt become a relevant pitcher until his age 27 campaign and most people who make the Hall of Fame actually were relevant in their early years. Kluber will end up one of the most dominate pitchers of this Era without a doubt, but he won't have the numbers to get into the Hall of Fame because he found his groove too late into his career.

 

[Chris]

If you saw him, you wouldn't be looking at his HOF chances as zero yet think Kluber, whose numbers are not up to Johans, is a shoo-in. Kluber has a ways to go and is already 32. Voters were leery of admitting Sanford Braun b/c his dominant period was only 5 years. Corey is still 20 WAR even behind him. He has a ways to go to be a HOFer. That standard is high and should remain high.

Cite where I said Johan isn't a HoFer.

 

[Chris]

@macbdog is actually right at the end of the day. Kluber has Hall of Fame stuff, but his numbers won't be good enough by current standards to get himself into the Hall of Fame. He has 82 career wins at the moment in his age 32 campaign. He will have to get another 120+ wins in his career to even be considered into the Hall of Fame. He would need an average of twelve per season over the next ten years.

Kluber didnt become a relevant pitcher until his age 27 campaign and most people who make the Hall of Fame actually were relevant in their early years. Kluber will end up one of the most dominate pitchers of this Era without a doubt, but he won't have the numbers to get into the Hall of Fame because he found his groove too late into his career.

Good point. It should come down to his career wins.

 

[sportscoach]

Good point. It should come down to his career wins.

Johan Santana only has 139 career wins, so he won't make the Hall of Fame either cause of that and he fell off the map after his age 31 season.

Now that being said this new era of only 30 area starts a season will change the number that allows people into the Hall of Fame, but I doubt even with that we will see anyone under 200 wins actually make it in.

 

[Chris]

Gotta get dem wins.

 

[Stark]

If Kluber wins a third Cy Young and doesn't make the Hall of Fame, then he'd be the first guy in baseball history to have that distinction, not counting the PED guys.

Three Cy Youngs gets you in the HOF, unless you're a cheating prick like Clemens.

 

[Derek]

You have to change the standards by which you look at pitchers. The days of 300 win guys are over.

Even 200 is an extreme rarity now, and almost everybody is at the point where they'll even concede that pitching wins are meaningless.

Johan Santana should have been a borderline HoF guy, with his only knock being longevity, but he got screwed.

In 10 years, or whenever Kluber joins the ballot I think you'll see him get the benefit of forward thinking that would have also benefited Santana.

Longevity will likely be Kluber's problem as well since he got a late start unless he maintains his extreme dominance for another few years. He could also pitch until he's 40 and leave no doubt. Tough to predict.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

You have to change the standards by which you look at pitchers. The days of 300 win guys are over.

Even 200 is an extreme rarity now, and almost everybody is at the point where they'll even concede that pitching wins are meaningless.

Johan Santana should have been a borderline HoF guy, with his only knock being longevity, but he got screwed.

In 10 years, or whenever Kluber joins the ballot I think you'll see him get the benefit of forward thinking that would have also benefited Santana.

Longevity will likely be Kluber's problem as well since he got a late start unless he maintains his extreme dominance for another few years. He could also pitch until he's 40 and leave no doubt. Tough to predict.

How does this factor in where he plays next?

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

@thestatman i demand you answer to your claims that we had 12 excellent bullpen pitchers