Z out 2-4 weeks

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

Failure. Epic failure.

Why not? Wally is completely worthless if his shot isn't falling. Plus were on a pace to win like 60 games this year so the our pick would basically be another 2nd rounder.

 

[Lee]

Why not? Wally is completely worthless if his shot isn't falling. Plus were on a pace to win like 60 games this year so the our pick would basically be another 2nd rounder.

Geving up a first for a center that is as old as Z does not make sense. The only "older" player I trade a first plus wally for is VC because guards last longer than centers and he is still playing like an all star. This mght be the time to look at adding someone like Darko, but then again JJ and Darnell are already out playing him and Wright might have something left in the tank like he showed in pre-season. If MB isnt afraid to let some rookies learn on the fly, we arent as bad at 4/5 as some might think without Z. Truth is, Z was playing at an all star level. Besides Yao and Howard, no center was out playing him this year that emediately comes to mind, so replacing him is not simple. Other players on the team (namely AV) need to step up to fill the void until his return. Wally's contract should be used for one of only 2 pieces. A player that compliments the team when we are healthy (VC, Wallace, miller) or a young player who could be added to the future core. (not sure who is available). Adding an aging center with a history of injuries (even if he is a personal friend of mine, lol) is a panic move. Let the rookies learn, let Wright do what he was brought in here to do. But most important of all, let OKC cut Joe Smith. :chuckles:

 

[cavsgirl26]

LOL at the Thread's tags. haha

 

[Jon]

The only "older" player I trade a first plus wally for is VC because guards last longer than centers and he is still playing like an all star.

Oh? Seems to me the bigs last longer since their game isn't as predicated on speed/jumping.

But maybe I just feel that way because every vet guard we've brought in has faded quickly.

Even Snow who found ways to contribute with his leadership and defense up until last season was finished at the age of 34.

Just seems to me for every Sam Cassell there's a Mutombo, and for every Michael Jordan there's an Abdul-Jabbar.

...

Other than that I agree with your post, just like when Z hurt his foot initially we need to see what we can do scrape together to get by until he's back. Every month that goes by the rookies are that much further along the curve, and yes, we already have a vet big man we could dust off in Wright.

We need to stick to the plan and get good value for our assets. As the trading deadline approaches there may be answers, but it doesn't help anything to act desperate.

 

[cavfanintexas]

Oh? Seems to me the bigs last longer since their game isn't as predicated on speed/jumping.

But maybe I just feel that way because every vet guard we've brought in has faded quickly.

Even Snow who found ways to contribute with his leadership and defense up until last season was finished at the age of 34.

Just seems to me for every Sam Cassell there's a Mutombo, and for every Michael Jordan there's an Abdul-Jabbar.

...

Other than that I agree with your post, just like when Z hurt his foot initially we need to see what we can do scrape together to get by until he's back. Every month that goes by the rookies are that much further along the curve, and yes, we already have a vet big man we could dust off in Wright.

We need to stick to the plan and get good value for our assets. As the trading deadline approaches there may be answers, but it doesn't help anything to act desperate.

True, true. The longer we wait to trade Wally increases the chances to get good value with out giving up a 1st next year.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Interesting points by both Jon and Lee.

I long maintained centers last longer than any other position by the average, and that they are also the most overpaid position. Five years ago, that would have been true: there were plenty of 38 year old backup centers who were good for 15 minutes a game, and rarely a guard over 34. There has been an increase in swingmen in thier mid-thirties, and a decrease in bigs in their late thirties. My guess is that improvements sports medicine and the increased speed of the game is beginning to even things out. I've also heard a trusted source tell me the average pay scale for shooting guards now eclipses the average for centers. I'd have to do the math and get back to you on that one.

I think we might get to a point that we would take Miller for Wally and a first as the deadline draws near, but I don't think now is the time. Unless you guys haven't noticed, Miller is still playing very well... I'm pretty sure he led the Kings in scoring last night.

 

[Pioneer10]

I think I'd prefer if we go big to go after Kaman if we're looking for a more offensive minded big or Camby if the Cavs want to add another post defender if management wants even more D.

I really hope we sign AV long term now: we could be in a big hole next year if he signs elsewhere (i.e. none of this trade talk ends up with another big)

 

[abuC]

Kaman wouldnt be a bad idea, who knows, maybe Ferry will pull off a steal like the Lakers did when Bynum went down last year.

It might not be a bad idea to get a deal done, you might say it's a rush decision, but the Cavs need homecourt in the playoffs and cant afford to drop behind the Celtics/Lakers pace.

 

[Cavatt]

I think AV is our future center, and I am not disappointed with that. He has shown he can actually improve his game, and his rebounding is terrific. He is not as good as Z at ome things, but he is has faster feet than any guy his size. I think the AV JJ Combo is going to be awesome hopefully by next year. If Darnell is there to play defense like Ben, I think we probably need to find only 1 more guy who can be a backup big, and that could be Sasha Kaun. After last night I am not so scared. I think JJ can step up against opposing benches especially by the end of the year.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Andy, JJ, and a solid signing in 2010 (Tyson Chandler type guy) could be a heck of frontcourt in 2010. And I'm sure we'd get production from either Jackson, or perhaps Z or Big Ben as well.

 

[abuC]

You have to re-sign Varejao, mobile big men that can play defense and hustle are rare, you cannot let him walk. He does pretty much everything you ask of him, and he's finishing strong around the rim this year which was the only problem I had with him in the past. He's young, intelligent and hustles every game, give him his money.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

Re: As Z goes, the Cavs go....

Mo + LBJ pick and roll all night. I really don't know why we don't run that play more. In the case of Boston, if LBJ is setting the pick and Pierce doesn't switch to Mo, Mo has an open 3. If Pierce does switch, then pass to LBJ and let him go against Rondo. Clearly Rondo has no chance... If Mo is setting the screen, the most likely thing the Celtics will do is double LBJ, and Mo will have an open 3.

That play worked too often for Mike Brown to stick with it. Just becaue we are winning doesn't mean Mike Brown isn't an idiot anymore. It kills me how people flip flop their whole opinion of him in one season.

 

[Lee]

I think Z could be a 15 min a night guy if he wants to be for years to come. But he might not want to do that. Z is complex person who isnt only motivated by money. He loves his team, cleveland and the game of basketball, but he is also a devoted family man. He could retire to spend more time with the family in a heartbeat and not look back.

AV on the other hand is the perfect starting center for Lebron if we improve our depth. JJ is a future starter, and Darnell will be a 4th hustle big off the bench. We still need that backup who can play center. That can be a free egent or a throw in a future deal. Or, Z could decide that is a perfect role for him.

As fir comparing eric snow to vince carter....wow. Yes snow got old quick, but he lacked athleticism in his prime, could never shoot, and had a major knee injury. If VC has a knee injury, he is done also. Look how great penny was before the knee injury or even grant hill. That said, youd dont make moves thinking someone is going to develop new injuries. VC can shoot and pass. As he gets slower, he will still have speed. AI does not seem to be slowing down much, although I never thought he was a good fit for our team.

Kamen would not be a knee jerk reaction. Brad Miller would be. Kamen is a 26 year old starting quality center in the NBA. He is not great, but he is good. He can rebound, score on the inside, block shots and play for Germany. What more could you want? He does have a history of some injuries over the last year and a half. He wouldnt solve our short term situation as he is out for a couple of weeks with his own foot problem. If we are going to take a chance on a 7 foot injured player, I rather it be a young one. I would be satisfied with turning wally into kamen if thats the best offer. He is a solid piece to the core and could always be involved in a future trade if AV JJ and Danrell all work out and he is not needed.

 

[NarlCavs]

I still don't see the Clippers giving up Kamen unless they get quality in return. Talented young big men aren't easy to find and Kamen is a very solid C with a lot of years left.

I really don't see the Cavs doing anything now. I think they ride with what they've got for the next month. Wright was signed for times like this so you give him minutes if a more true C is needed in a game. If anything is done it might just be waiving Jawad Williams and adding a big body to fill his spot for now.

I wouldn't give up any quality long term assets for the C's or PF's that are realistically available right now. If the price was right and you didn't have to take back a long term contract than of course you make the move.

Brad Miller makes a little sense but he's making a lot of money for a player who will be the 4th big when Z gets back. I wouldn't give up a #1 for him. I would be willing to throw in a #2 pick or even Jackson along with expirings for him but that's it.

 

[Green Lantern]

Re: As Z goes, the Cavs go....

I agree that this is the main problem as the offense hasn't looked as crisp when it isn't running through him. He probably came back too soon. That ankle seems to have gotten worse since that Denver game which in actuality was a great example of how good we look when Z is on point. This little glimpse at a somewhat injured Z should be extra incentive to find his future replacement in a trade. This doesn't even begin to describe the defensive issues that have been exposed with the big man being hobbled.

This was the senero some of us really talked about before the season started..DF really needs to see what he can do to cement that spot...it also means the rookies will be seeing extra minutes..