Just because I'm struggling to find other examples, outside of Aaron Rodgers, anyone know QB's taken in rounds 1/2 who didn't start a game their rookie season who then became successful? Specifically since the return.
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#52 DeShone Kizer
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dark2332
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Phillip Rivers sat two seasons behind Drew Brees.
I think many of these players that are going to be good are usually ready to play early, though. I think Rodgers could've, just had a road block in Favre.
Many of these players, although not perfect, start right away and learn much faster that way. Even them not at their best yields better team results than the incumbent usually. Especially long-term results.
col63onel
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Philip Rivers threw 30 total passes his first 2 years.
If you expand your definition of success, Kaepernick fits
CosmoKramer
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I've seen the Carson Palmer comparison for Kizer, who sat behind Jon Kitna for a year even though he was the #1 pick in 2003.
Palmer was also a so-so prospect until his senior year, compiling a 39-39 TD/INT ratio his first three years at USC.
But for more examples of 1st/2nd round picks that sat before having success: Chad Pennington, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Colin Kaepernick, and the aforementioned Aaron Rodgers.
Not a long list; I think most QB's that are drafted high and end up being successful go to QB needy teams and immediately see the field.
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I can't say that I watched a ton of Irish football this past season. But, I did get to see the ND Texas game since it was Labor Day weekend. I realize it was just that game but I thought Kizer was very impressive. He can definitely make all of the throws and in that game he was pretty accurate. I know the rap on him is that he doesn't see the field that quickly.
I am no QB guru but it seems that there is hope to at least improve upon that. If he were like Kessler and had limited physical tools that would be something different. I know you are more into the draft than me. What do you see for a ceiling for him maybe something like Steve McNair was one that I was reading.
Lee
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Ironically speaking of Favre, he is another example. 2nd round pick that sat his rookie year before being traded.
Brady sat too a year and half, but he was a 6th rounder.
sportscoach
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List of Starting QBs who sat the first season: Favre, Brees, Brady, Cousins, Rodgers, Rivers, Palmer, Romo, Culpepper, Montana, McNair,
It wasn't until the last 10 years area that QBs started as a rookie before Manning teams almost always sat rookie QBs. It won't hurt Kizer to sit a season with the right guidance, I mean that is a solid list of QBs. We have Kessler who has started and did well. Everyone on the roster has to beat out Kessler for the starting spot and something tells me that isn't going to happen
It wasn't until the last 10 years area that QBs started as a rookie before Manning teams almost always sat rookie QBs. It won't hurt Kizer to sit a season with the right guidance, I mean that is a solid list of QBs. We have Kessler who has started and did well. Everyone on the roster has to beat out Kessler for the starting spot and something tells me that isn't going to happen
bob2the2nd
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10 years ago? manning was drafted 19 years ago. Couch was drafted the next year and we had this same conversation on the ESPN message boards about if Couch should start immediately or sit. Point being this conversation has been going on a very long time.
I was always in the sit and learn boat. But i really think its entirely dependent on the QB. I think Rodgers, Brees, Montana, and McNair could have all stepped up and been decent starters right off the bat. Those other guys I really think sitting helped them.
So with Kizer i think he should sit to start, but unless Kessler is just doing amazing Kizer should be starting by the 2nd half of the season. Because quite frankly this team needs to know if they are going all in next year or not on a QB
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What I was referring to was in the last 10 years teams are no longer sitting rookie QBs, but before that is was actually rare that a QB starting and it wasn't until Manning that teams even thought about it. If you noticed almost all the older QBs we have right now in the NFL sat the first season, but all the younger guys never did. The game is changing and maybe not in a good way. If Kessler is playing well and putting up good numbers I cannot merit sitting him for Kizer who is unknown that's not fair to Kessler. We cannot always go by potential, we need to put out the guy who can give us the best chance to win now. I know that sounds strange, but it's possible another bad record year could cause issues keeping this FO and Coaching staff together.
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The only way Kizer should sit is if he didnt have support or the offensive line would ruin him.
I dont believe either of those things are true. Kizer did play in a system that used pro concepts. Sure, it was more Patriots than anything else, but still pro concepts.
To put it a different way: if Carson Wentz could start day one, Kizer definitely can too.
I dont believe either of those things are true. Kizer did play in a system that used pro concepts. Sure, it was more Patriots than anything else, but still pro concepts.
To put it a different way: if Carson Wentz could start day one, Kizer definitely can too.
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so how is the offensive line better this year?
dark2332
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Are you serious?
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Good question.
bob2the2nd
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Im not sure if you are just repeating a talking point, or not, but you are wrong. Very wrong. Manning had absolutely 0 impact on this trend as far as I can tell. Its been expected that a rookie QB, drafted in the first 2 rounds is the teams starter by the end of the season going back to at least 1993. The exception is almost exclusively when a player is drafted to learn behind an already very well performing QB (top 10 at the time). I will say that happened a lot more in the past, but still rookie QBs were expected to play.
Draft of 1999- Couch, McNabb, culpepper, Smith and McNown all guys that went in the top 12 of that draft. 4 of the 5 played in more than 7 games and 3 played in more than 12. That was 18 years ago. Culpepper was behind Jeff George and Randle cunningham. Cunningham goes on to be a pro-bowler and a first team all pro the following year.
Lets go to the 1997 draft (the year before manning and a very QB poor draft) 1 QB drafted in the 1st round. Jim Drunkenmiller who was drafted to learn behind Steve Young who while aging was still a top of the line QB (pro bowler). Drunkenmiller played 4 games that year. QB Jake Plummer went in the 2nd round and he played 10 games his rookie year
1996 Draft- 1 QB taken in the first 2 round- Tony Banks midway through the 2nd. He played in 14 games his rookie year
1995 Draft- Steven Mcnair first round Drafted to play behind Chris Chandler (top 10 QB at the time), played in 4 games
Kerry collins first round, played in 15 games his rookie year
Todd Collins drafted middle of the second to play behind Jim Kelly (HOF QB)
Kordel Stewart Drafted end of the 2nd to play behind Neil ODonnell (a top 10 QB at the time). Played WR his first 2 years
1994 Draft
Trent dilfer (the 1 guy that wasnt playing behind a top 10 QB, and didnt play his rookie year)
Heath Shuler played in 11 games his rookie year
1993 Draft Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer go 1 and 2 at the top of the draft. Bledsoe plays 12 games, Mirer all 16.
So to sum all of this up Going back 24 years for QBs drafted in the top 2 rounds it appears as though unless a rookie QB is brought in to explicitly learn from an already well established QB, he got thrown into play. Now its also clear that going back that QBs for the most part do not seem to be over drafted as much the further you go back. They were drafted much more in line with when they were expected to play, not their raw "potential"
I couldn't disagree more....
Kizer is coming off a relatively poor year at ND in comparison to his RS Frosh year. He had difficulty reading coverages and one of his biggest knocks coming into the NFL is identifying coverages and knowing where to go with the ball.
I have no idea why you'd want to feed him to the lions right out of the gate? Let him absorb the league, show a better understanding in the QB room, and perfect his trade in practice while learning under Hue.
We aren't a good team....there's no need to crush this kids confidence in a year where we'd be lucky to sniff .500.
And beyond all that.....lets see what Kessler has. This is a huge year for him....he either has it or he doesn't. Best case scenario is Kessler shows some value while Kizer impresses behind the scenes.