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2017-18 Cleveland Indians Offseason

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AZ_ said:
BABIP is a crisis actor, paid for by George Soros to promote subjectivity in baseball.

#FakeStats
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@Deezus
 
All the ass clowns here talking about ERA being "fake news" cracks me up.

At any point during the season, one can go to MLB.com and look up team rankings on batting, fielding and pitching.

The team that has scored the most runs is listed as the top offense. Wow...amazing. Maybe scoring runs is over rated too, eh? Or perhaps scoring runs is a function of luck as well. The team that commits the fewest errors is considered the number 1 defensive team. More shocking news I know. And then the pitching. Pitching rankings are not based on FIP, WAR, WHIP or any other metric. For over 100 years, baseball has recognized the gold standard in evaluating pitching. And they will use the same metric for the next 100 years. It's called earned run average.

And yet, when I point out the ERA discrepancy between Brian Shaw and ZMack there are still knuckleheads that will try to sell you that that Shaw is a better pitcher than ZMac. Absolutely stunning and incredible.

2 things regarding the tribe this season. They do not need to replace Shaw. There is massive addition by subtraction. And they certainly don't need to keep signing washed up veterans to the staff, like this clown Ogando who pitched today. Right now the team has 13 tremendous pitchers and only 12 spots available. Waiting in the wings after the 13 include Cody Anderson (3.05 ERA in 2015). Cole Sulser, a guy who struck out 12 per 9 innings, Shane Bieber. Triston MaKenzie their top prospect. Jayson Merryweather, and others.

 
13 tremendous pitchers? I'm as high as our roster anyone, but don't think I'd call Olson, Goody, Otero, McAllister, Tomlin and Merritt "tremendous".
 
Urban said:
13 tremendous pitchers? I'm as high as our roster anyone, but don't think I'd call Olson, Goody, Otero, McAllister, Tomlin and Merritt "tremendous".
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That is if you use the informal meaning of “tremendous” as in great or impressive, then I agree with you. If you use the true definition then they could be “tremendously” good, bad, or mediocre. It is spring training and 1 game has been played so I personally agree with you. Can’t call any staff on any team tremendous yet, starters included. Just my two pennies worth.
 
thestatman said:
So I see there's a double standard here. You level a personal attack. yet no ban. Are you the owner of this site?

There's nothing wrong with using WHIP as a pitching stat. Typically, a strong WHIP leads to a strong ERA. And yes. ERA is the gold standard and will always be the gold standard.

WAR and FIP are flawed in that there is far too much subjectivity involved. The dumbest stat of all is BABIP. DUMB. dumb dumb. The assumption is that batted balls become a function of luck. Bauer used this excuse early in the season last year. People like Randy Jones had one of the lowest batting averages ever on balls in play and that had nothing to do with luck.

As for Tyler Olsen. yes. last season he was a tremendous pitcher. sample size was somewhat small. I never said that he was a better pitcher than Kluber, or Miller. But he sure as hell was a lot better than gas can Brian Shaw. Brian Shaw learned the art of kissing the boss's ass as well as anyone. Tito and BS played cribbage together for hours and hours every single day. In the meantime, ZMac had a far superior run last season and simply put was a better pitcher than Shaw over the past 3 seasons. Yet it was Shaw that saw all the innings and subsequently cashed a ridiculously high contract.

Shaw had an opportunity to shine in the biggest moment of his career. But in typical fashion, he was shelled with all the money on the line in game 7 . 10th inning, against the Cubs,

People in this town bitch and moan about Jose Mesa and his failure in game 7. 1997...but don't say a peep about the great and powerful Brian Shaw.

The team's bullpen ERA was 2.89 last season. If you exclude Shaw, the pen's ERA was probably around 2.82. Good riddance to one of the most over rated pitchers in the history of tribe baseball.
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Lurk more. Post less.
 
thestatman said:
All the ass clowns here talking about ERA being "fake news" cracks me up.

At any point during the season, one can go to MLB.com and look up team rankings on batting, fielding and pitching.

The team that has scored the most runs is listed as the top offense. Wow...amazing. Maybe scoring runs is over rated too, eh? Or perhaps scoring runs is a function of luck as well. The team that commits the fewest errors is considered the number 1 defensive team. More shocking news I know. And then the pitching. Pitching rankings are not based on FIP, WAR, WHIP or any other metric. For over 100 years, baseball has recognized the gold standard in evaluating pitching. And they will use the same metric for the next 100 years. It's called earned run average.

And yet, when I point out the ERA discrepancy between Brian Shaw and ZMack there are still knuckleheads that will try to sell you that that Shaw is a better pitcher than ZMac. Absolutely stunning and incredible.

2 things regarding the tribe this season. They do not need to replace Shaw. There is massive addition by subtraction. And they certainly don't need to keep signing washed up veterans to the staff, like this clown Ogando who pitched today. Right now the team has 13 tremendous pitchers and only 12 spots available. Waiting in the wings after the 13 include Cody Anderson (3.05 ERA in 2015). Cole Sulser, a guy who struck out 12 per 9 innings, Shane Bieber. Triston MaKenzie their top prospect. Jayson Merryweather, and others.
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You forgot how Shaw sucked up to Tito by playing cribbage all day. That usually completes your argument against Shaw.
 
Stat dude out there feeding the fish...

Bait takers..:chuckle:
 
thestatman said:
All the ass clowns here talking about ERA being "fake news" cracks me up.

At any point during the season, one can go to MLB.com and look up team rankings on batting, fielding and pitching.

The team that has scored the most runs is listed as the top offense. Wow...amazing. Maybe scoring runs is over rated too, eh? Or perhaps scoring runs is a function of luck as well. The team that commits the fewest errors is considered the number 1 defensive team. More shocking news I know. And then the pitching. Pitching rankings are not based on FIP, WAR, WHIP or any other metric. For over 100 years, baseball has recognized the gold standard in evaluating pitching. And they will use the same metric for the next 100 years. It's called earned run average.

And yet, when I point out the ERA discrepancy between Brian Shaw and ZMack there are still knuckleheads that will try to sell you that that Shaw is a better pitcher than ZMac. Absolutely stunning and incredible.

2 things regarding the tribe this season. They do not need to replace Shaw. There is massive addition by subtraction. And they certainly don't need to keep signing washed up veterans to the staff, like this clown Ogando who pitched today. Right now the team has 13 tremendous pitchers and only 12 spots available. Waiting in the wings after the 13 include Cody Anderson (3.05 ERA in 2015). Cole Sulser, a guy who struck out 12 per 9 innings, Shane Bieber. Triston MaKenzie their top prospect. Jayson Merryweather, and others.
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You know Anderson won’t be ready to pitch in the pros til probably like May right? And Sulser, Bieber, McKenzie all will not pitch in the pros this season more than likely correct?

And also Shaw still had a good ERA and If you went by ERA, Salazar, Tomlin and Bauer all had above 4 which if you are an ERA Nazi is not good.

You keep contradicting yourself since you say ERA is so important but get after a guy who had a 3.52 ERA but praise guys that are above 4.
 
bubba52782 said:
You forgot how Shaw sucked up to Tito by playing cribbage all day. That usually completes your argument against Shaw.
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This is overwhelmingly the best part of the troll.

Shaw got all these opportunities by being Tito’s cribbage partner!
 
LandofClevesMan said:
what the hell happened in this thread?
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A stat man who doesnt know stats, but says he does, is trolling this a bit. At least I have actually coached multiple sports lol

More or less we are getting off track since there hasnt been a ton of news this offseason and we have an odd new poster of late, so it makes it easy to get off track.
 
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