#52 DeShone Kizer

[dark2332]

I had no idea Tom House was working with Kizer. That's fantastic for his development since House was a revered pitching coach who also added helping quarterbacks later. Kizer's biggest obstacle is using his lower body like a quarterback rather than flinging the ball with all arm, like a positional baseball player trying to beat a baserunner. If Kizer can become consistent in his base, that's half the battle for him.

That said, I'm still expecting this to be Kizer's redshirt year. I saw that the talk of Denver's camp is Lynch overshadowing Simian. I hope we hear the same in the summer of 2018 of Kizer.

Yeah, the consensus is House may be just what the doctor ordered for Kizer over the next month. It will keep the repetition going on the adjustments made to his lower half by Hue/Lee. David Lee mentioned him being a long strider on occasion, but it's a thing of beauty when he's right and compact.

I agree with you that we cannot rush him to the field if he isn't ready mentally out of the gates. That said, he's a sharp kid who is now doing this as his full time job for the first time. Let's not forget he was a good college student who worked hard in the classroom and juggled many things in school. It sounds like he's improving faster than expected now that it's his sole focus.

Slowly but surely, people other than us helpless hopefuls are starting to chirp that this kid's going to have a legitimate shot to win the job in camp. Much of it will be determined by the work put in with House and continuing to chew up and spit out the playbook like he has since putting on the orange and brown.

I'm optimistic, but I want to see it myself. That said, I don't believe in a redshirt year entirely for him. We can't let him be an unknown with Darnold and Allen on the board next year. If he wins the job out of camp, that's just gravy for us and bodes extremely well for us and him.

On the other hand, if he doesn't play at all this season, that will bode very poorly on him and we will likely draft a QB in '18. Said scenario would be an indicator that he's not even close. If we are 2-8, our coaches will be looking for any way to get him on the field if he's remotely ready.

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah, the consensus is House may be just what the doctor ordered for Kizer over the next month. It will keep the repetition going on the adjustments made to his lower half by Hue/Lee. David Lee mentioned him being a long strider on occasion, but it's a thing of beauty when he's right and compact.

I agree with you that we cannot rush him to the field if he isn't ready mentally out of the gates. That said, he's a sharp kid who is now doing this as his full time job for the first time. Let's not forget he was a good college student who worked hard in the classroom and juggled many things in school. It sounds like he's improving faster than expected now that it's his sole focus.

Slowly but surely, people other than us helpless hopefuls are starting to chirp that this kid's going to have a legitimate shot to win the job in camp. Much of it will be determined by the work put in with House and continuing to chew up and spit out the playbook like he has since putting on the orange and brown.

I'm optimistic, but I want to see it myself. That said, I don't believe in a redshirt year entirely for him. We can't let him be an unknown with Darnold and Allen on the board next year. If he wins the job out of camp, that's just gravy for us and bodes extremely well for us and him.

On the other hand, if he doesn't play at all this season, that will bode very poorly on him and we will likely draft a QB in '18. Said scenario would be an indicator that he's not even close. If we are 2-8, our coaches will be looking for any way to get him on the field if he's remotely ready.

It will depend on our record, injuries and other factors if he sees the field this season if he doesn't win it out of camp. Lets develop this kid the right way and no need to pressure him to start. The coaching staff seems to be doing as much as possible to make sure there is good competition to figure out who our starting QB is and that's a good thing.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Yeah, the consensus is House may be just what the doctor ordered for Kizer over the next month. It will keep the repetition going on the adjustments made to his lower half by Hue/Lee. David Lee mentioned him being a long strider on occasion, but it's a thing of beauty when he's right and compact.

I agree with you that we cannot rush him to the field if he isn't ready mentally out of the gates. That said, he's a sharp kid who is now doing this as his full time job for the first time. Let's not forget he was a good college student who worked hard in the classroom and juggled many things in school. It sounds like he's improving faster than expected now that it's his sole focus.

It's really tough to separate the hype/spin/wishful thinking from actual facts, and as I said before, the coaches won't even know much until well into training camp. And if they don't, we can't. The weird x-factor in all this is House>>>>>>>>>>>Brian Kelly.

The other x-factor is we all saw how Osweiler played last season, and Kessler isn't exactly Mr. Durability. So Kizer as our more prepared/gives us the best chance to win guy may come sooner than some would prefer.

 

[Randolphkeys]

It's really tough to separate the hype/spin/wishful thinking from actual facts, and as I said before, the coaches won't even know much until well into training camp. And if they don't, we can't. The weird x-factor in all this is House>>>>>>>>>>>Brian Kelly.

The other x-factor is we all saw how Osweiler played last season, and Kessler isn't exactly Mr. Durability. So Kizer as our more prepared/gives us the best chance to win guy may come sooner than some would prefer.

Even if he fixes his mechanical issues in one summer, which would be a huge accomplishment and great sign for 2018, he doesn't make progressions yet. Having two hurdles to overcome - one being the cerebral part of the position and the other being mechanics - I think it's a lot to overcome. The main reason I'm saying this now is people will watch him start a few games next season and rush to judgement, and start pounding the table to trade up for a QB. Don't listen to them. He wasn't drafted to be a finished product this season.

 

[Chris]

who?

I don't think there is much left on kizer until we see him in training camp

It's...the Deshone Kizer thread though...

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Even if he fixes his mechanical issues in one summer, which would be a huge accomplishment and great sign for 2018, he doesn't make progressions yet. Having two hurdles to overcome - one being the cerebral part of the position and the other being mechanics - I think it's a lot to overcome.

Well, the first issue is his who he is competing against. Osweiler was absolute hot garbage last season, and Kessler is one concussion away from perhaps ending his career. Kizer may up being the best guy we have by default.

The second is that it is tough to look at guys like Carr and Prescott -- both of whom had flaws and weren't supposed to start as rookies, but did start from week one. They're certainly the exception rather than the rule, but it's tough to know who is going to be exception until we're further into the season. I guess that's my real issue. I am not caught up in the Kizer hype, but neither am I willing to say he can't surprise.

The main reason I'm saying this now is people will watch him start a few games next season and rush to judgement, and start pounding the table to trade up for a QB. Don't listen to them. He wasn't drafted to be a finished product this season.

That's interesting. So that makes it should like you think we shouldn't be trading up for/drafting a QB near the top of the draft next year, but rather should just plan on running with Kizer in 2018-19 no matter what?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Well, the first issue is his who he is competing against. Osweiler was absolute hot garbage last season, and Kessler is one concussion away from perhaps ending his career. Kizer may up being the best guy we have by default.

That is definitely one scenario, but it requires glass half empty for two QBs and glass half full for Kizer. Again, the current Cleveland situation reminds me of the Broncos last season, where a very good team took a step back offensively to reload and get Paxton Lynch ready for this season. They had a retread like Osweiler, a young guy who projects to be a solid backup like Kessler, and a blue chip prospect who didn't make progressions in college like Kizer. Simian edged out Sanchez, but this year it looks like Lynch has a prophecy to fulfill. I'd love to see the same from the Browns.

The second is that it is tough to look at guys like Carr and Prescott -- both of whom had flaws and weren't supposed to start as rookies, but did start from week one. They're certainly the exception rather than the rule, but it's tough to know who is going to be exception until we're further into the season. I guess that's my real issue. I am not caught up in the Kizer hype, but neither am I willing to say he can't surprise.

Prescott had the advantage of a Super Bowl contending offense around him, one that was built to maximize the end of Tomo's career. He grew as the year went along, but he was a game manager who didn't take many risks and let Zeke be the offensive focal point. You can say much of the same with Carr's outstanding receivers. I believe Carr was a victim of several preconceptions that weren't under his control in the draft. His brother was a bust as a player who tainted how teams graded his little brother out, but ended up a great personal QB coach for Derek. People also forgot that Derek played under center the first half of his college career before switching to a spread formation. Plus... Derek has moxy. Just threw that in to get Supersurge excited. Can those things happen for Kizer? Maybe, but I'm more of the mind that Kizer is going to struggle this season and too many Browns fans will be quick to write him off.

That's interesting. So that makes it should like you think we shouldn't be trading up for/drafting a QB near the top of the draft next year, but rather should just plan on running with Kizer in 2018-19 no matter what?

I think we will see Darnold, Allen, and perhaps Rosen have some up and down play during the college season. Some Browns fans will drool over one of them and want to cash in the picks. The problem is I still see a number of QB starved franchises who the Browns will be bidding against to move up. I also want to see other holes on the roster get filled, especially in the defensive backfield. Let's watch everything play out, but when Kizer fell to the second, I believe the plan became preparing him to start in 2018.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That is definitely one scenario, but it requires glass half empty for two QBs and glass half full for Kizer. Again, the current Cleveland situation reminds me of the Broncos last season, where a very good team took a step back offensively to reload and get Paxton Lynch ready for this season. They had a retread like Osweiler, a young guy who projects to be a solid backup like Kessler, and a blue chip prospect who didn't make progressions in college like Kizer. Simian edged out Sanchez, but this year it looks like Lynch has a prophecy to fulfill. I'd love to see the same from the Browns.



Prescott had the advantage of a Super Bowl contending offense around him, one that was built to maximize the end of Tomo's career. He grew as the year went along, but he was a game manager who didn't take many risks and let Zeke be the offensive focal point. You can say much of the same with Carr's outstanding receivers. I believe Carr was a victim of several preconceptions that weren't under his control in the draft. His brother was a bust as a player who tainted how teams graded his little brother out, but ended up a great personal QB coach for Derek. People also forgot that Derek played under center the first half of his college career before switching to a spread formation. Plus... Derek has moxy. Just threw that in to get Supersurge excited. Can those things happen for Kizer? Maybe, but I'm more of the mind that Kizer is going to struggle this season and too many Browns fans will be quick to write him off.



I think we will see Darnold, Allen, and perhaps Rosen have some up and down play during the college season. Some Browns fans will drool over one of them and want to cash in the picks. The problem is I still see a number of QB starved franchises who the Browns will be bidding against to move up. I also want to see other holes on the roster get filled, especially in the defensive backfield. Let's watch everything play out, but when Kizer fell to the second, I believe the plan became preparing him to start in 2018.

I do agree with you that fans shouldn't judge Kizer as anything like a finished product this year, if he does end up playing. Frankly, what fans think of his performance shouldn't matter at all in terms of the draft next year.

I'm simply saying that if the coaches decide that it makes sense to play him, I'm not going to second-guess their decision based on my own belief that a rookie QB shouldn't start. They're going to be much closer to the three candidates than are any of us, so I'm simply saying that I'm going to defer to their judgement on when, or if, he should start any games this season.

The draft next year really will present multiple choices. If the current guys all look like they don't have it, then perhaps we go "all in" on a QB in 2018. If it's borderline with Kizer or one of the others, then maybe we don't trade up to get a top guy, but we still take the best one who falls to us in the first round. And if one of them balls out enough to make 2018 a definite starting year for one of the guys currently on the roster, then we trade down and gobble up more picks for the future.

I just think the best course is to trust the decision on whether or not he should start to the coaches.

 

[dark2332]

Let's watch everything play out, but when Kizer fell to the second, I believe the plan became preparing him to start in 2018.

I think the fact that he fell to #52 is exactly why he would not deter us from taking another QB in the 2018 draft. He was a low risk pick for a QB, with high-upside.

I don't think anyone expected him to be ready to start Day 1. If he does progress that much, as he seems to be ahead of schedule at the moment with a long way yet to go, that's quite a positive sign from the young man. They don't want to rush him--but if he flat out wins the job out of camp, he wins the job out of camp.

Realistically, I think they are looking to play him at some point later in the season. This is a unique situation because he's not exactly competing against competent NFL starters here for the gig--it's one of the weakest QB rooms in the NFL. Theoretically, he doesn't HAVE to see the field in games to impress our coaches in practice with his progression throughout the season. Hell, in that scenario, he may impress enough to dissuade a QB move in 2018. That said, it's a Catch-22 because I expect him to get the starting job at some point if he shows said progression we are referring to.

Thus, if he doesn't show enough in practice to even see the field in 2017, then I would assume he also hasn't shown enough in practice/meetings to dissuade us from taking a QB in the 2018 draft.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Thus, if he doesn't show enough in practice to even see the field in 2017, then I would assume he also hasn't shown enough in practice/meetings to dissuade us from taking a QB in the 2018 draft.

Considering the virtual inevitability of injuries at some point to whomever is deemed "the starter", Kizer would have to be the worst of the three to never see the field. And you're right, that probably wouldn't be enough to pass on a QB in the first round next year.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think the fact that he fell to #52 is exactly why he would not deter us from taking another QB in the 2018 draft. He was a low risk pick for a QB, with high-upside.

I for one hope not. That's a worst case scenario where the Browns, yet again, wasted a valuable high draft pick in a deep draft on a guy holding a clipboard, when there were future Pro Bowl level players still on the draft board. For the sake of my sanity, I hope you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[dark2332]

I for one hope not. That's a worst case scenario where the Browns, yet again, wasted a valuable high draft pick in a deep draft on a guy holding a clipboard, when there were future Pro Bowl level players still on the draft board. For the sake of my sanity, I hope you couldn't be more wrong.

I hope they do see enough from him this year to love his future--whether it be late season, from the jump, or just in practice/meetings. In said case, we likely pass on another QB in 2018. I'm with you, man--I'd love to be able to use 5 picks in the top 2 rounds to seriously fill some holes on this team. It would go such a long way.

I'm just saying, at #52, they're dating him but they aren't married to him. If he doesn't show the coaches what they want to see, I wouldn't pass on a guy if they see a franchise quarterback in next year's draft just because they spent a 2nd on Kizer.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I hope they do see enough from him this year to love his future--whether it be late season, from the jump, or just in practice/meetings. In said case, we likely pass on another QB in 2018. I'm with you, man--I'd love to be able to use 5 picks in the top 2 rounds to seriously fill some holes on this team. It would go such a long way.

I'm just saying, at #52, they're dating him but they aren't married to him. If he doesn't show the coaches what they want to see, I wouldn't pass on a guy if they see a franchise quarterback in next year's draft just because they spent a 2nd on Kizer.

There's some good stuff I'm seeing in your take. This is certainly a situation where Kizer has to show a strong work ethic and improvement in the coming season or else the Browns can look to draft a QB. However, I'm going back to the Paxton Lynch case study. Plenty of NFL people are calling him a breakout candidate because despite not playing much in 2016, he seems ready to lead a strong team overall in 2017. Some Broncos fans were calling him a bust because he didn't beat out Simian, some wanted the Broncos to trade for Romo two months ago, and some mock drafts had the Broncos drafting a QB high last March... but here they are with a plan they executed with a physical specimen and a great QB guru on staff in Mike McCoy. I'm sure Lynch will have some turnovers this season, it won't always be a smooth transition, but BY GOD it was a plan! Wouldn't that just warm your plums? The Browns with a plan at QB?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

However, I'm going back to the Paxton Lynch case study. Plenty of NFL people are calling him a breakout candidate because despite not playing much in 2016, he seems ready to lead a strong team overall in 2017. Some Broncos fans were calling him a bust because he didn't beat out Simian, some wanted the Broncos to trade for Romo two months ago, and some mock drafts had the Broncos drafting a QB high last March... but here they are with a plan they executed with a physical specimen and a great QB guru on staff in Mike McCoy. I'm sure Lynch will have some turnovers this season, it won't always be a smooth transition, but BY GOD it was a plan! Wouldn't that just warm your plums? The Browns with a plan at QB?

This all makes sense. It is just that it is dependent upon 1) the Broncos being correct about Lynch having a breakout year, and 2) Kizer being equivalent to Lynch.

No idea if 1) is correct or not.

2) is a bit more of a concern in that Denver actually traded up to get Lynch in the first round, suggesting they had a pretty high grade on him. Kizer was the fourth player taken by the Browns, in the second half of the second round. Normally, if you don't have a franchise QB and believe there is one in the draft, you don't wait until your fourth pick to take him. That suggests to me that the Browns may not have the same degree of commitment to/valuation of Kizer that the Broncos had with respect to Lynch. More of a calculated risk/gamble than an investment in which they are willing to place their hopes for finally finding a QB.

 

[dark2332]

There's some good stuff I'm seeing in your take. This is certainly a situation where Kizer has to show a strong work ethic and improvement in the coming season or else the Browns can look to draft a QB. However, I'm going back to the Paxton Lynch case study. Plenty of NFL people are calling him a breakout candidate because despite not playing much in 2016, he seems ready to lead a strong team overall in 2017. Some Broncos fans were calling him a bust because he didn't beat out Simian, some wanted the Broncos to trade for Romo two months ago, and some mock drafts had the Broncos drafting a QB high last March... but here they are with a plan they executed with a physical specimen and a great QB guru on staff in Mike McCoy. I'm sure Lynch will have some turnovers this season, it won't always be a smooth transition, but BY GOD it was a plan! Wouldn't that just warm your plums? The Browns with a plan at QB?

I would love that narrative if they are able to see enough from Kizer without starting him--be it conceptual, showing it in meetings and limited reps in practice, or some mop-up game action.

The Denver situation has really been interesting, and I would consider it a different animal. Trevor Siemian, as a 24 year-old first-year starter last year, threw for 18 TD's to 10 INT in 14 games. He had 3400 yards and a passer rating of 84.6, all while having a poor offensive line that allowed a 6.56% sack percentage, 24th in the NFL. The kid showed promise as a young 6'3 220 lb quarterback. Frankly, he did a solid job and I think they were legitimately trying to see if he could be their future as well. They also were in the playoff hunt for a long portion of the season.

Even still, Lynch did eventually see some time. My point is, we don't have another QB on our roster as good as Trevor Siemian was for Denver last year, nor will we likely be knocking on the playoff door. On this team, if Kizer gets close to ready, he's probably our best option sooner rather than later--which leads me to believe he's going to see more time than Lynch did.