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#52 DeShone Kizer

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Yeah, I was a Kizer proponent and I’ll even admit... he’s bad. Really really bad.
 
We can acknowledge his receivers are crap, and admit that he has been crap as well.

For the record, the Browns have 10 drops on the season. Take away half and Kizer's completion percentage is still only 54.4%.

You want to defend Kizer, the better tactic is to see what Josh McCown is doing with a similar set of absolute nobodies at receiver, and compare it to what he did with our so-called quarterback genius of a head coach last year.

McCown has a QB rating of 96 this year, and 93.3 the year before Hue Jackson came in. Last year he had 72.3 with Hue Jackson running things.

QBR under Hue: 35.1. QBR in the years sandwiched around Hue: 56.1 (in Cleveland) and 50.9 (in New York).

I am not absolving Kizer. The numbers are terrible. They don't bode well, as no rookie starter in the last 20 years has had anywhere close to this bad a season and turned out to be any good. The good news is, the season isn't over. The bad news is, the target for "good rookie starter who had a crappy 1st year and turned out good" is Matt Stafford, who did the following in 10 games:

53.3% 2,267 yards, 13 TD 20 INT 37.0 QBR 61.0 RAT

If we extrapolate to the 14-15 full games Kizer can play, Kizer would have to do the following for the rest of the year to be comparable:

170/315 for 54.1% and 2030 yards, 15 TD and 17 INT. Those are per-game averages of 21/39, 253 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT.

That's not outrageous. But he hasn't out up a single game of even that mediocre quality yet.
 
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GreasySpread36 said:
I think as Browns fans, having not seen really good QB play around here in such a long time, we tend to lose sight of the fact that a good QB elevates the play of the people around him. There have been some good quarterbacks that have been productive without great receivers around them. Tom Brady hasn't always had the best receivers in the world to throw to, for example. You can somewhat minimize a quarterback's deficiencies with enough "weapons" but a QB who is inaccurate and makes poor decisions is still going to be those things even with better targets, whereas a good QB is going to make fairly pedestrian targets look better than they actually are.
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I firmly believe that the QB makes the weapons more than the weapons make the QB. There are some exceptions, like Andy Dalton and AJ Green, but more often than not an elite QB makes the talent around him look better.

Look no further than the Packers.

Are Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams and Randall Cobb bad players or good players? Most people would say they're good players. But stick them with a lousy QB instead of an elite QB and they all look terrible. It's not like they forgot how to get open.
 
Make no mistake, all the criticisms of Kizer have been true.

that doesn't change these facts...

He IS very young

He played for a shit program in college

NOBODY thought he should be named a starting QB on any NFL franchise this year. The most optimistic people had him coming in to start this week after the bye.

Hue did nothing to accommodate Kizer, say for example, the way the Eagles have done to accommodate Wentz. the Eagles are running Wentz's offense from freaking college. Hue has done very little to make Kizer comfortable, he's been feeding Kizer with a fire hose.


None of this means Kizer will make it. Maybe he won't. But he does have a lot of the basic tools we need from a QB, possibly more so than any of the players coming out in the next draft. So all I say is, why the fuck should we be writing him off at this point in time? To do so is just wrong in my book. We can always write him off if he flops through the rest of the season.
 
This is why I think we are signing a solid Veteran QB to start and have Kizer sit for a few years before he plays again. He wasn’t ready to start and he isn’t ready to start. I wish we kept a McCown and/or just went and got a better veteran than Osweiler and had Kizer sit.
 
sportscoach said:
This is why I think we are signing a solid Veteran QB to start and have Kizer sit for a few years before he plays again. He wasn’t ready to start and he isn’t ready to start. I wish we kept a McCown and/or just went and got a better veteran than Osweiler and had Kizer sit.
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Osweiler would have been fine. Bad, but fine.

Keys and I were clamoring for them to keep and start Osweiler for atleast half the season.

Oh well, what is done is done, but not much we can do now.
 
Lee said:
Osweiler would have been fine. Bad, but fine.

Keys and I were clamoring for them to keep and start Osweiler for atleast half the season.

Oh well, what is done is done, but not much we can do now.
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buzzdog said:
He played for a shit program in college
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ND is 8-1 in the post Kizer era. They were 13-11 with Kizer as their QB. Can we please retire this tired narrative? Kelly is an asshole. So is/have been several good to great coaches in history. Doesn't mean he is wrong about Kizer- even though you agree with him that he clearly isn't ready.
 
macbdog said:
Doesn't mean he is wrong about Kizer- even though you agree with him that he clearly isn't ready.
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I only followed Kizer loosely when he was there under Kelly so I it's just an assumption on my part based on what I've watched and read about that situation. It just seemed like things were pretty fucked up for whatever reason and I generally place responsibility on the coach and program at that level.

I agree that so far this year Kizer hasn't been ready. I don't know if he ever will be ready.

But I also know the Browns don't really have any better options other than to let him play and see if he figures it out in a repeatable way before the end of this season.

I think I'm on record wanting to have anyone with some experience start the season with Kizer coming in about now. I don't know where the responsibility lies regarding the decision to not have any veteran option on the roster, but that choice was made from the pre-season on and never changed.

So we ride with what we got. I'll root for the kid to have the light bulb turn on and if it doesn't then we go to the next candidate which is someone not currently on the roster.
 
As mentioned by someone smarter than me, I resolve to treat his post-bye stats as a separate set of data. I do t think he will turn it around but I’ll root that he does. He won’t get another year of starts to figure it out unless his “2nd half” is markedly better than his first.
 
natedagg said:
As mentioned by someone smarter than me, I resolve to treat his post-bye stats as a separate set of data. I do t think he will turn it around but I’ll root that he does. He won’t get another year of starts to figure it out unless his “2nd half” is markedly better than his first.
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Precisely.
 
GreasySpread36 said:
I think as Browns fans, having not seen really good QB play around here in such a long time, we tend to lose sight of the fact that a good QB elevates the play of the people around him. There have been some good quarterbacks that have been productive without great receivers around them. Tom Brady hasn't always had the best receivers in the world to throw to, for example. You can somewhat minimize a quarterback's deficiencies with enough "weapons" but a QB who is inaccurate and makes poor decisions is still going to be those things even with better targets, whereas a good QB is going to make fairly pedestrian targets look better than they actually are.
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Jesus Christ, we are talking about the goat and comparing him to Kizer? I mean, that's like saying Michael Jordan dominated games, so why can't Kay Felder.


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