Derrick Rose: Outta Here!

[The Red Viper]

Trading IT in some sort of package involving Shump etc makes sense if we can get a genuinely good player in return!

 

[buzzdog]

I just don't see how IT fits this roster if Rose is healthy and playing this style.

I'd MUCH rather package him with Shump for draft picks or other compensation. Especially given that Cedi and Zizic will earn minutes in the rotation as well.

On some level I'm in agreement with this but when I look at it realistically there's no way we trade IT. I think he brings some intangibles and toughness along with his instant offense that will end up being important to this version of the Cavs. I think trading him for picks or whatever would be horrible PR-wise and perception-wise, and it could risk alienating Lebron as a move that is not "all in" for this season.

Not gonna happen.

 

[buzzdog]

True. I can't argue with the injury concerns for Rose and Wade. But IT is hardly a stopgap for injury concerns. We still don't know if he will even by playable come June.

This statement is pretty much bullshit IMO.

 

[buzzdog]

Sure, IT helps with keeping the team healthy, IF in fact he returns to health.

You're assuming something that has yet to be proven, and we likely won't know until after the deadline. That's a big risk that no one is talking about.

You're making huge assumptions that IT is worse off physically than virtually EVERYONE is saying he is. The guy did miss the playoffs but you seem to forget that was the result of having a center fall on him. He played through it and it caught up to him after he played huge minutes with maximum intensity throughout the games he did play.

I'm not even a pro-IT guy, not in any way shape or form. But your stance just completely devalues him and ignores all his positives. You clearly are wearing a big set of blinders on this one.

 

[MirORich]

Because neither Rose or IT have the unstoppable shotmaking mode in clutch moments that Kyrie does, we need both of them to cover 48 full minutes of plus point guard play, so that there are less overall clutch, nailbiter shots needed. Since neither of them can play 48 minutes, we need BOTH. We need them to cover for the 38-40 mpg Kyrie played in the playoffs and do as good as they can to equal his overall impact. Then, just as importantly, in the 8-10 mpg he would sit, we need one of them to be a huge net positive over what we got from Deron Williams or Shump in a misguided ballhandler role.

To me, we absolutely need both.

 

[Gus Zing]

Realistic expectations for Rose until IT comes back?

I think he can average 17/6 if Lue manages him.

Might be too many points. I guess it depends just how much energy Wade uses to start the season.

 

[TitleTown]

This statement is pretty much bullshit IMO.

Why? We don't know if (1) he will be healthy, and (2) if he is useful against GSW.

What is wrong with that?

You simply saying it's "bullshit" without providing reasons, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[TitleTown]

I'm not even a pro-IT guy, not in any way shape or form. But your stance just completely devalues him and ignores all his positives. You clearly are wearing a big set of blinders on this one.

Nope, you're reading more into my statements than what I'm actually saying.

All that I'm saying is that there's a risk with IT that we're not considering. I stand by that statement.

BUT, I also agree with everyone that we're pretty much stuck with IT, and that it's probably FAR MORE risky to trade him.

Both can be true.

 

[Flight479]

Because neither Rose or IT have the unstoppable shotmaking mode in clutch moments that Kyrie does, we need both of them to cover 48 full minutes of plus point guard play, so that there are less overall clutch, nailbiter shots needed. Since neither of them can play 48 minutes, we need BOTH. We need them to cover for the 38-40 mpg Kyrie played in the playoffs and do as good as they can to equal his overall impact. Then, just as importantly, in the 8-10 mpg he would sit, we need one of them to be a huge net positive over what we got from Deron Williams or Shump in a misguided ballhandler role.

To me, we absolutely need both.

Wasn't Isaiah even more impressive in the 4th than Irving last year? I honestly believe Irving is overrated in his importance against the Warriors. He literally only had 2 good games against them in the finals and when he woke up it was too late. Even the year before he was average to poor some games. He was not nearly as consistent as we needed him to be against the Warriors. I'm hoping the duo of IT and Rose can be more consistent if/when we get to the finals.

 

[cavsfever]

Wasn't Isaiah even more impressive in the 4th than Irving last year? I honestly believe Irving is overrated in his importance against the Warriors. He literally only had 2 good games against them in the finals and when he woke up it was too late. Even the year before he was average to poor some games. He was not nearly as consistent as we needed him to be against the Warriors. I'm hoping the duo of IT and Rose can be more consistent if/when we get to the finals.

Sorry, but Kyrie is better than Isaiah. Isaiah can be stopped in the playoffs when he's not getting calls and the defenses turn up to playoff intensity. Kyrie cannot be. The stats show this pretty clearly.

For the PG position Kyrie is one of the greatest pure ISO scorers of all time, as far as I can see. Isiah is really good but he's just not that.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Sorry, but Kyrie is better than Isaiah, full stop. Isaiah can be stopped in the playoffs when he's not getting calls and the defenses turn up to playoff intensity. Kyrie cannot be. The stats show this very clearly.

For the PG position Kyrie is one of the greatest pure ISO scorers of all time, as far as I can see. Isiah is really good but he's just not that.

Not going to pretend that I would trade Kyrie straight up for IT, but the jury is still out on how Thomas plays when flanked by guys who can actually put the ball in the hole.

 

[TyGuy]

Sorry, but Kyrie is better than Isaiah. Isaiah can be stopped in the playoffs when he's not getting calls and the defenses turn up to playoff intensity. Kyrie cannot be. The stats show this pretty clearly.

For the PG position Kyrie is one of the greatest pure ISO scorers of all time, as far as I can see. Isiah is really good but he's just not that.

You don't stop getting calls in the playoffs. The same argument is made for Harden and it's not true. Teams can aggressively trap IT because they rarely had anybody else that could make plays once he dumped it off. So what happens when you aggressively trap IT and he dumps it to LeBron? Uhhh oh time....

 

[Cavatt]

Sorry, but Kyrie is better than Isaiah. Isaiah can be stopped in the playoffs when he's not getting calls and the defenses turn up to playoff intensity. Kyrie cannot be. The stats show this pretty clearly.

For the PG position Kyrie is one of the greatest pure ISO scorers of all time, as far as I can see. Isiah is really good but he's just not that.

Yes you can throw your whole team at stopping him when he is the #1 option. He has never played in as much space as he will have here. What would you say, straight up one on one. Who is easier to guard Kyrie or IT? I think that is a tough call.

I am really curious to see what happens this year and how each player performs. I am really interested to find out if IT gets the same calls as a Cav that he got in Green.

 

[Gus Zing]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqKSmTaMkYI

 

[TitleTown]

Not going to pretend that I would trade Kyrie straight up for IT, but the jury is still out on how Thomas plays when flanked by guys who can actually put the ball in the hole.

If Rose keeps playing the way he is, we'll be saying Kyrie who?