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Let it all out. The Cavaliers Rant Thread

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That's the second playoff game in a row that has happened. If so many of the players are having a disgusting performance - not just bad luck in missing good shots - for the second playoff game in a row, isn't that itself a reflection on the coach?

That doesn't make it all on the coach, but the reality is that you can't trade all of your players.

To me, it looks like the players are susceptible to losing faith in their system if things start to go bad, and the coach looks powerless to reverse it. Perhaps they'd respond differently to a different coach with a different system.

Or not. But again, the reality is that if the team as a whole was that bad, it's a problem that goes beyond roster tweaks. JBB and the team still have a chance to reverse the slide and win the series, and maybe show something different. But right now, it looks like a poorly led, uninspired team

Fuck JBB, in every sense. The players quit in the third quarter. A horrible coach is no excuse for that performance.

I think far less of the players on this team after those two collapses. Coach is dead man walking but outside of Jarrett Allen the team deserves massive boos for their terrible effort.

The players bear primary responsibility for the two losses just as they have primary responsibility for the two wins and the first half lead in Game 4.

Is the team underperforming because JBB as coach? Yes. Did they get outscored 37-10 in a quarter after being up 9 at the half because JBB is coach? Hell no.

But if people want to excuse, say, Niang for his stupid inbounds turnover because JBB is coach and that caused the turnover I’m not going to argue, just laugh.

Stop the excuses, get your heads out of your asses, win the series in seven and then likely get wiped out by Boston. Then we can fire the coach and adjust the roster. But I’m not giving the players a hall pass to fuck off playoff games. You’re professional athletes; act like it.
 
Fuck JBB, in every sense. The players quit in the third quarter. A horrible coach is no excuse for that performance.

I think far less of the players on this team after those two collapses. Coach is dead man walking but outside of Jarrett Allen the team deserves massive boos for their terrible effort.

The players bear primary responsibility for the two losses just as they have primary responsibility for the two wins and the first half lead in Game 4.

Is the team underperforming because JBB as coach? Yes. Did they get outscored 37-10 in a quarter after being up 9 at the half because JBB is coach? Hell no.

But if people want to excuse, say, Niang for his stupid inbounds turnover because JBB is coach and that caused the turnover I’m not going to argue, just laugh.

Stop the excuses, get your heads out of your asses, win the series in seven and then likely get wiped out by Boston. Then we can fire the coach and adjust the roster. But I’m not giving the players a hall pass to fuck off playoff games. You’re professional athletes; act like it.
Totally agree. Not scoring even a single point for that stretch again when this team has so much talent is not the coach's fault. Some will laugh at this post, which I do not care but this team has performed like this several times this entire season and come back and won several big games, and yes, it was the regular season... I fully expect them to win Game 5 at home at 8 p.m. and tilt the series back in our favor. There is no reason why this should not happen, and if they completely sulk, pout, kick, and scream like a toddler and/or stand around with little effort when things get chippy or whatever they can F off. I would be shocked if they did that.
 
Fuck JBB, in every sense. The players quit in the third quarter. A horrible coach is no excuse for that performance.

I think far less of the players on this team after those two collapses. Coach is dead man walking but outside of Jarrett Allen the team deserves massive boos for their terrible effort.

The players bear primary responsibility for the two losses just as they have primary responsibility for the two wins and the first half lead in Game 4.

Is the team underperforming because JBB as coach? Yes. Did they get outscored 37-10 in a quarter after being up 9 at the half because JBB is coach? Hell no.

But if people want to excuse, say, Niang for his stupid inbounds turnover because JBB is coach and that caused the turnover I’m not going to argue, just laugh.

Stop the excuses, get your heads out of your asses, win the series in seven and then likely get wiped out by Boston. Then we can fire the coach and adjust the roster. But I’m not giving the players a hall pass to fuck off playoff games. You’re professional athletes; act like it.

True. Although when the troops believe they're being led by Horatio Gates, it can be tougher to keep up morale.

@Sebastian
 

This wasn’t supposed to be another story about something that isn’t working for the Cleveland Cavaliers — promise.

I sat down Sunday to write about Darius Garland and something curious I saw at the end of Game 1 of this playoff series against the Orlando Magic. That is when Garland, a former All-Star on a nearly $200 million contract, drained a 3 just above the break and his teammates responded with a slew of patronizing pats on the chest. It was like, see, young man, you can do it.

It seemed like a strange reaction, considering Garland has played in playoff games before and made big, memorable shots throughout his career. He even scored 51 points in a regular-season game once. So why were the Cavs celebrating Garland’s basket (actually two — he hit a 16-footer and then the 3 to put Cleveland ahead by 16 with 1:36 left in Game 1) as though it meant more?

“They want me to (shoot more), so that’s why they be patting me on my chest and trying to hype me up to shoot more shots,” Garland said. “That’s the thing — they think I’m not as aggressive right now.”

Garland and I spoke last Thursday inside an empty Kia Center, several hours before the Cavs were to play Game 3 in Orlando. Nothing had gone wrong yet. Cleveland was in command of the series 2-0; Garland posted 29 points in the first two games and was shooting over 40 percent from 3.

And then, the next two games happened. And as I pulled up my chair to get to work on my interview with Garland, a stat from this playoff series reached up from the screen and punched me in the nose.

Through four games in this series, Evan Mobley has more field goal attempts (47) than Garland (43).

That can’t be a thing with Cleveland’s offense. Now we know why teammates get excited if Garland cans a couple shots in a row.

“They show me almost every day on film that I’m turning down shots,” Garland said. “Yeah, I just, I gotta shoot them.”

Year 2 of Garland’s backcourt partnership with Donovan Mitchell was a clear regression for the former. Garland’s per-game averages of 18 points, 14.8 field goal attempts and with 6.5 assists were all noticeably down from his last campaign before Mitchell arrived. In 2021-22, an All-Star year for Garland, the guard led the Cavs in scoring (21.7 points), shots (17.3) and assists (8.6).

Mitchell is a top-10 scorer in the NBA, and both he and Garland are smaller guards. One was going to have to defer, if only a little, to the other, and it is Garland who took that step back. But his on-court production hardly dropped in his first season with Mitchell. This is the year when the numbers dipped, and on-lookers noticed.

“I try to get everybody involved,” Garland said. “(In Game 1), Donovan, having it going really early, getting us off to a good start — he’s really been holding it down. When he gets tired, I try to turn up my aggressiveness a little bit. When he’s not in the game, we need scoring. So, I look to be aggressive when he’s not on the floor.”

Obviously, that isn’t happening this series, nor for the entire season (when Mitchell missed 27 games), considering Garland’s output. He’s averaging 12 points against the Magic, including a five-point effort on a bad night for all the Cavs in a historic Game 3 loss.

Cleveland is averaging 91.5 points and 30 3-point attempts per game in this series. Garland is shooting 9 of 22 from 3, still an excellent percentage (nearly 41 percent), but there just hasn’t been enough shooting, and Garland obviously isn’t seeing a huge spike in production when Mitchell is off the court. A post player who is not a serious 3-point threat, who is not the dynamic scorer that Garland is, like Mobley, should not be hoisting more shots in a playoff series.

For the season, Garland is playing for the first time with a small forward looking to shoot, in Max Strus. Cleveland runs a few more sets for Mobley than it used to, and still loves to run the high pick-and-roll with Garland and either Mobley or Jarrett Allen. But Strus’ addition meant another player to whom Garland needs to get the ball — a partial explanation for his decreasing shot volume.

Garland was also hurt for nearly two months with a broken jaw, another potential explanation for why he hasn’t quite found his usual footing. And when he returned, Sam Merrill, another 3-point shooter, was still in the rotation.

“That’s just how I grew up playing basketball — I try to play the right way,” Garland said. “My dad always (said), just play the right way and it will come back to you. I mean, I’ll turn down a good shot to get a great one. With the talent we have, I’m cool with that.”

But with all of Garland’s sharing and deferring, he’s developed a hitch. The ball, as his father, former NBA player Winston Garland, predicted, does find its way to Garland, especially on the perimeter. He’s open, but instead of going up with the 3, he pump fakes, puts it on the floor and then works from there. The hesitation can, theoretically, fulfill Garland’s goal of creating a great shot — for him or a teammate. Or it could junk up the offense, leading to a forced shot off the dribble or perhaps a turnover (his 3.0 turnovers per game in this series are essentially the same as his in-season average).

“I think he’s continuing, like all of our guys, to hunt for perfection,” Cleveland coach J.B. Bickerstaff said before Game 3. “I think those are the things being called out (in film sessions). I don’t think there is something he’s not doing, or something he’s continuing to do, that’s hurting us. … I think he’s done a great job as a floor general. The turnovers have sometimes come in streaks, kind of bit us in the butt, but that’s an area where he’s looking to improve.”

For what it’s worth, Garland agrees with the critiques he’s getting inside the Cleveland locker room. He said, “I haven’t been as aggressive as far as what I’ve been in the past.” He also said it’s not a confidence issue — he is aware of his past success in the NBA.

“I mean, I can do it — I don’t think that’s ever been a problem,” Garland said. “Past couple years, I just, especially at this time in the playoffs, a great shot is better than a good shot.”
 
True. Although when the troops believe they're being led by Horatio Gates, it can be tougher to keep up morale.

@Sebastian

Arguably Saratoga was the most decisive battle of the Revolutionary War as it brought France in as an ally. We won in spite of Gates but we did win.

JBB is no Edward I but he’s not Edward II either. Our last two “Bannockburn” games removed any doubt that JBB has to go but as a Cavalier fan stretching back to our first ever playoff series the players were frankly not worthy of the Wine and Gold.

I strongly believe in supporting your team win or lose but I can’t support players that give up.

I suspect the crowd Tuesday night will be hostile if the team pulls that crap again.
 
I guess you missed the 40 pt and 12 pt wins vs Milwaukee, and the 27 pt win over Orlando? C'mon man get a grip.
We split with the bucks and are getting destroyed by the magic now. What are you talking about?
 

This wasn’t supposed to be another story about something that isn’t working for the Cleveland Cavaliers — promise.

I sat down Sunday to write about Darius Garland and something curious I saw at the end of Game 1 of this playoff series against the Orlando Magic. That is when Garland, a former All-Star on a nearly $200 million contract, drained a 3 just above the break and his teammates responded with a slew of patronizing pats on the chest. It was like, see, young man, you can do it.

It seemed like a strange reaction, considering Garland has played in playoff games before and made big, memorable shots throughout his career. He even scored 51 points in a regular-season game once. So why were the Cavs celebrating Garland’s basket (actually two — he hit a 16-footer and then the 3 to put Cleveland ahead by 16 with 1:36 left in Game 1) as though it meant more?

“They want me to (shoot more), so that’s why they be patting me on my chest and trying to hype me up to shoot more shots,” Garland said. “That’s the thing — they think I’m not as aggressive right now.”

Garland and I spoke last Thursday inside an empty Kia Center, several hours before the Cavs were to play Game 3 in Orlando. Nothing had gone wrong yet. Cleveland was in command of the series 2-0; Garland posted 29 points in the first two games and was shooting over 40 percent from 3.

And then, the next two games happened. And as I pulled up my chair to get to work on my interview with Garland, a stat from this playoff series reached up from the screen and punched me in the nose.

Through four games in this series, Evan Mobley has more field goal attempts (47) than Garland (43).

That can’t be a thing with Cleveland’s offense. Now we know why teammates get excited if Garland cans a couple shots in a row.

“They show me almost every day on film that I’m turning down shots,” Garland said. “Yeah, I just, I gotta shoot them.”

Year 2 of Garland’s backcourt partnership with Donovan Mitchell was a clear regression for the former. Garland’s per-game averages of 18 points, 14.8 field goal attempts and with 6.5 assists were all noticeably down from his last campaign before Mitchell arrived. In 2021-22, an All-Star year for Garland, the guard led the Cavs in scoring (21.7 points), shots (17.3) and assists (8.6).

Mitchell is a top-10 scorer in the NBA, and both he and Garland are smaller guards. One was going to have to defer, if only a little, to the other, and it is Garland who took that step back. But his on-court production hardly dropped in his first season with Mitchell. This is the year when the numbers dipped, and on-lookers noticed.

“I try to get everybody involved,” Garland said. “(In Game 1), Donovan, having it going really early, getting us off to a good start — he’s really been holding it down. When he gets tired, I try to turn up my aggressiveness a little bit. When he’s not in the game, we need scoring. So, I look to be aggressive when he’s not on the floor.”

Obviously, that isn’t happening this series, nor for the entire season (when Mitchell missed 27 games), considering Garland’s output. He’s averaging 12 points against the Magic, including a five-point effort on a bad night for all the Cavs in a historic Game 3 loss.

Cleveland is averaging 91.5 points and 30 3-point attempts per game in this series. Garland is shooting 9 of 22 from 3, still an excellent percentage (nearly 41 percent), but there just hasn’t been enough shooting, and Garland obviously isn’t seeing a huge spike in production when Mitchell is off the court. A post player who is not a serious 3-point threat, who is not the dynamic scorer that Garland is, like Mobley, should not be hoisting more shots in a playoff series.

For the season, Garland is playing for the first time with a small forward looking to shoot, in Max Strus. Cleveland runs a few more sets for Mobley than it used to, and still loves to run the high pick-and-roll with Garland and either Mobley or Jarrett Allen. But Strus’ addition meant another player to whom Garland needs to get the ball — a partial explanation for his decreasing shot volume.

Garland was also hurt for nearly two months with a broken jaw, another potential explanation for why he hasn’t quite found his usual footing. And when he returned, Sam Merrill, another 3-point shooter, was still in the rotation.

“That’s just how I grew up playing basketball — I try to play the right way,” Garland said. “My dad always (said), just play the right way and it will come back to you. I mean, I’ll turn down a good shot to get a great one. With the talent we have, I’m cool with that.”

But with all of Garland’s sharing and deferring, he’s developed a hitch. The ball, as his father, former NBA player Winston Garland, predicted, does find its way to Garland, especially on the perimeter. He’s open, but instead of going up with the 3, he pump fakes, puts it on the floor and then works from there. The hesitation can, theoretically, fulfill Garland’s goal of creating a great shot — for him or a teammate. Or it could junk up the offense, leading to a forced shot off the dribble or perhaps a turnover (his 3.0 turnovers per game in this series are essentially the same as his in-season average).

“I think he’s continuing, like all of our guys, to hunt for perfection,” Cleveland coach J.B. Bickerstaff said before Game 3. “I think those are the things being called out (in film sessions). I don’t think there is something he’s not doing, or something he’s continuing to do, that’s hurting us. … I think he’s done a great job as a floor general. The turnovers have sometimes come in streaks, kind of bit us in the butt, but that’s an area where he’s looking to improve.”

For what it’s worth, Garland agrees with the critiques he’s getting inside the Cleveland locker room. He said, “I haven’t been as aggressive as far as what I’ve been in the past.” He also said it’s not a confidence issue — he is aware of his past success in the NBA.

“I mean, I can do it — I don’t think that’s ever been a problem,” Garland said. “Past couple years, I just, especially at this time in the playoffs, a great shot is better than a good shot.”
Jesus Christ.

Imagine going out on the floor in a playoff game and trusting this guy in a big moment if you’re his teammate.

He has no goddamn confidence in his game. Why would you trust him to get it done?
 
Jesus Christ.

Imagine going out on the floor in a playoff game and trusting this guy in a big moment if you’re his teammate.

He has no goddamn confidence in his game. Why would you trust him to get it done?
 
At some point you have to accept that repeating the same message is not going to change anything. So you have to look to do something else. Okoro and Wade turned on the aggression at some point this season. Doesnt look like DG will
 
We split with the bucks and are getting destroyed by the magic now. What are you talking about?
I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. We were talking about the JAN/FEB streak. NOT what the season series was with Milwaukee or what's happening now. Do you get it? Do you understand?
 
This season is singlehandedly killing my fandom. I have never seen a group of guys who haven't accomplished a damn thing refuse to give any effort night in & night out. They act like they are the reigning champs or title favorites. Watching just about every other team who is winning their series and then comparing them to us is devastating. Effort makes the difference. I do not think coaching can fix this.

I used to plan around games, I wanted to move closer to downtown to go more often with my kids, I used to spend weeks a year on this site and playing with trade machines. All of those things are minimized this year.

Cavs org wants to know why ticket sales aren't there this year. Its because the team doesnt care & its heavily implied that your best player has had his foot out the door since he got here.
 
That's the second playoff game in a row that has happened. If so many of the players are having a disgusting performance - not just bad luck in missing good shots - for the second playoff game in a row, isn't that itself a reflection on the coach?

That doesn't make it all on the coach, but the reality is that you can't trade all of your players.

To me, it looks like the players are susceptible to losing faith in their system if things start to go bad, and the coach looks powerless to reverse it. Perhaps they'd respond differently to a different coach with a different system.

Or not. But again, the reality is that if the team as a whole was that bad, it's a problem that goes beyond roster tweaks. JBB and the team still have a chance to reverse the slide and win the series, and maybe show something different. But right now, it looks like a poorly led, uninspired team
FWIW I thought the first half coaching by the Magic was inept

The blueprint to beat this iteration of the playoff Cavs has been unbelievably simple. Make us shoot jump shots. Never respect Garland or LeVert’s drives as anything other than a pass waiting to happen

The magic inexplicably sold out to stop everyone except Allen and Mobley from getting easy buckets. Result? 40 paint points in a HALF

the Magic then predictably starting defending the paint at the price of ceding open shots that the Cavs have shown no ability to make. Look at the shot chart from the 3rd quarter. It’s disgusting.

At a certain point guys need to start making open and wide open shots. Because any non lobotomized team should be camped out in the paint and daring us to shoot at this point.
 

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