Report: Bosh decides against returning to Toronto, will seek S&T

[Evancook]

So people would be fine giving up our energy and hustle guy and a very young player with potential, and both of them at the #4 and #5 spots, for another player at the #4 spot? I would not be fine with that at all. You are giving Toronto to much credit. Sign and trades normally do not reward the sending team like we would be rewarding Toronto.

Besides, giving up both Andy and JJ for Bosh is not something that would make LeBron tingle all over with joy.

2 Role players = Chris bosh?i don't think you can pass that up.Yeah JJ has potential,but so what?he doesn't have the physical attributes to be as good as Chris Bosh.
Andys great,but if he and JJ are the X factors in getting Chris Bosh then,cya.

This is under the understanding that we can offer the Raptors the best deal,when most likely teams like the Hornets could be offering Collison ,LA Offerng Bynum,etc.

 

[BA_CavsFan]

2 Role players = Chris bosh?i don't think you can pass that up.Yeah JJ has potential,but so what?he doesn't have the physical attributes to be as good as Chris Bosh.
Andys great,but if he and JJ are the X factors in getting Chris Bosh then,cya.

This is under the understanding that we can offer the Raptors the best deal,when most likely teams like the Hornets could be offering Collison ,LA Offerng Bynum,etc.

I think if Toronto really does like Varejao, and JJ's value is as high as we believe it to be, then our package is 1 of the best. I think LA might actually be unattractive to Bosh, because he would only be the 2nd best big man on the team and there are so many great big men in Lakers history that he would be overshadowed in the record books. Like what LeBron would feel if he signed in Chicago. Bosh would be loved in Cleveland because he not only makes this team a unanimous favorite, but he would keep LeBron in Ohio. In LA, he would just be Pau Gasol's frontcourt partner. Not exactly an ideal place to go for your image.

 

[Evancook]

Yes; and you do, oh Wise One. Allow me to bow to your genius sense of value in players. Let me bow at your feet oh Wise One.

Your post indicates that you do not think other teams and coaches and GM's do NOT value Andy and JJ very high. I hate to tell you, but I actually believe many of them do value those two pretty high and would take them in a second. But again, how can anyone question your wisdom in these matters? I am the homer after all, and you are the Genius.

and this further proves his statement that you gauge our players value way too high.
I can see where hes coming from,its not even you directly but a large majority of people on here overvalue the peices we have and how much we could get in return.

 

[Evancook]

I think if Toronto really does like Varejao, and JJ's value is as high as we believe it to be, then our package is 1 of the best. I think LA might actually be unattractive to Bosh, because he would only be the 2nd best big man on the team and there are so many great big men in Lakers history that he would be overshadowed in the record books. Like what LeBron would feel if he signed in Chicago. Bosh would be loved in Cleveland because he not only makes this team a unanimous favorite, but he would keep LeBron in Ohio. In LA, he would just be Pau Gasol's frontcourt partner. Not exactly an ideal place to go for your image.

As far as JJ's value being as high as we believe it to be,see the post above me.
When the "list" came out,a long with Bosh's expected FA targets,LA was on there.
He wants to win and its a winning franchise.
And Bynum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Andy & JJ,especially when rebuilding.
Raps could actually build around Bargani&Bynum.

 

[BA_CavsFan]

As far as JJ's value being as high as we believe it to be,see the post above me.
When the "list" came out,a long with Bosh's expected FA targets,LA was on there.
He wants to win and its a winning franchise.
And Bynum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Andy & JJ,especially when rebuilding.
Raps could actually build around Bargani&Bynum.

The Raptors would definitely love Bynum more than Varejao and JJ, I know I would if I was Colangelo. But they can't force Bosh to go to LA. If LeBron can convince Bosh to come to Cleveland, then Toronto just has to name the price and the deal gets done. Of course, they could just say we won't sign and trade him but then they get stuck with Amir Johnson and Bargnani as their frontcourt with no other assets to use. And that's fine for Bosh because he'll just sign with Miami and begin a dynasty with Dwayne Wade.

But again, the legacy Bosh and LeBron would have if they won in Cleveland would be far, far greater than that due to a victory in Chicago or LA. If he didn't even think he could win in Cleveland than he must think LeBron is the alter ego of Vince Carter or something. The Cavs have never won a title. Cleveland hasn't won anything in 64 years. If Bosh wins it, he'll be elevated to Pippen-like status because he brought LeBron and the championship-starved, supposedly cursed city of Cleveland a title. I know it seems weird that winning in a small-market would be so great for someone's career, but bringing LeBron and the Cavs their first ever championship (and hopefully more to come) is much more special and marketable than winning the 16th championship in LA and being overshadowed by Pau Gasol.

About overvaluing players, Windhorst said Toronto has had their eye on Andy for awhile and JJ's value is at it's highest. I mean other GMs might be thinking this kid has so much potential that the Cavs didn't even trade him for Amare Stoudemire.

 

[MoFlo]

No, I've just never seen him post anything remotely negative...even if it's the most likely event to occur.

Which is fine, but I prefer not to live in a balloon. You two can enjoy it.

So now you're putting me in the category with him, when I just noticed a double standard with your statement?

 

[Chris]

So now you're putting me in the category with him, when I just noticed a double standard with your statement?

Well, I already told you why it's not a double standard, but okay. I'm razzing him for thinking positive in every situation, I like Doug anyways, though. So it's not really worth my time arguing about.

 

[Evancook]

^^^ People on here talk about Gilbert saying GTFO instead of working a sign and trade for Bron, what makes Toronto think differently?

Because Chris Bosh isn't projected to be a top 5 player in history.
What if Jordan went thru this situation,and the bulls were known as the franchise that
"Traded the GOAT"
Its about the fanbase negatively reacting,and the Raps don't have a hugenormous fanbase in Canada(Hockey...)plus the fact that Bosh/Colangelo have both talked about working sign and trades,Bosh has said he doesn't want to leave them in the dust if he opts to leave.

+most Raps fans have accepted that hes not going to stay and know that they can't be a contender with him as the first option so they're ready to do whats best to move on.
Theres a little more behind it for us..

 

[-Akronite-]

Well, I already told you why it's not a double standard, but okay. I'm razzing him for thinking positive in every situation, I like Doug anyways, though. So it's not really worth my time arguing about.

It is a double-standard. You razzed on him for being optimistic and think he's living in a balloon or whatever. Someone else razzes on you for pessimistic and you defend it claiming you say what you feel. That's a double-standard.*

I'm really really really hoping that LBJ, Ferry, or whoever makes CB4 in CLE possible. It would be like a dream to have a DUO of young capable stars.

*Not that this matters, nor does this mean anybody has a problem really worth arguing over.

 

[Mdog1]

Because Chris Bosh isn't projected to be a top 5 player in history.
What if Jordan went thru this situation,and the bulls were known as the franchise that
"Traded the GOAT"
Its about the fanbase negatively reacting,and the Raps don't have a hugenormous fanbase in Canada(Hockey...)plus the fact that Bosh/Colangelo have both talked about working sign and trades,Bosh has said he doesn't want to leave them in the dust if he opts to leave.

+most Raps fans have accepted that hes not going to stay and know that they can't be a contender with him as the first option so they're ready to do whats best to move on.
Theres a little more behind it for us..

Let me stop you right there. I bet you that the Raptors have more fans than 95% of teams in the NBA. The obvious exceptions being LA, Boston, maybe Cleveland (because of LeBron), maybe Miami (Wade). That is it though. There are 30 million people that would get behind the Raptors if they were ever to become serious contenders, can you say that about any other franchise?

Any ways Bosh is gone, every one knows that here. Local media tells us, Bosh has been unhappy for years, and honestly who would want to play in Canada unless your from Canada (it's freaking cold here).

And nobody should over rate JJ Hickson. He is a nice prospect, he has pretty good value around the league because of a few factors. The biggest ones are his age, athletecism, and contract.

 

[Chris]

It is a double-standard. You razzed on him for being optimistic and think he's living in a balloon or whatever. Someone else razzes on you for pessimistic and you defend it claiming you say what you feel. That's a double-standard.*

I'm really really really hoping that LBJ, Ferry, or whoever makes CB4 in CLE possible. It would be like a dream to have a DUO of young capable stars.

*Not that this matters, nor does this mean anybody has a problem really worth arguing over.

Since you nor MoFlo are not actually reading my posts, it makes it all the more worthless to argue over. Nothing wrong with being pessimistic or optimistic either way as long as it isn't your sole outlet. Sometimes you gotta take a bite of realism.

Unfortunately, I just wasted my time typing a few sentences that won't be read so...

BACK TO BOSH!

 

[Evancook]

Let me stop you right there. I bet you that the Raptors have more fans than 95% of teams in the NBA. The obvious exceptions being LA, Boston, maybe Cleveland (because of LeBron), maybe Miami (Wade). That is it though. There are 30 million people that would get behind the Raptors if they were ever to become serious contenders, can you say that about any other franchise?

Any ways Bosh is gone, every one knows that here. Local media tells us, Bosh has been unhappy for years, and honestly who would want to play in Canada unless your from Canada (it's freaking cold here).

And nobody should over rate JJ Hickson. He is a nice prospect, he has pretty good value around the league because of a few factors. The biggest ones are his age, athletecism, and contract.

those aren't fans right now, are they?
and yes i can,because everybody hops on the bandwagon when their local team gets good.
The Cleveland Cavaliers are a PRIME example of that.
Hell,ive followed the Browns and(to an extent) the Indians my whole life,but not as religiously i guess you could say i have the Cavs(i was like 9 when lebron got drafted)
The Raptors have followers because they represent the entire Nation of Canada(as a team),but when they suck and Only have B level Star and they're not winning they just don't have much hype,especially when Hockey season is in play at the same time.

Bottom Line:If they traded Chris bosh,it wouldn't be as big of a deal as us trading Lebron away would be.

Compare it to the Indians trading Cliff Lee to the Phillies last season.We acknowledge that it sucked but it was our only option.

i'm really not trying to bust your balls here but how do you know JJ has pretty good value?

 

[Mdog1]

those aren't fans right now, are they?
and yes i can,because everybody hops on the bandwagon when their local team gets good.
The Cleveland Cavaliers are a PRIME example of that.
Hell,ive followed the Browns and(to an extent) the Indians my whole life,but not as religiously i guess you could say i have the Cavs(i was like 9 when lebron got drafted)
The Raptors have followers because they represent the entire Nation of Canada(as a team),but when they suck and Only have B level Star and they're not winning they just don't have much hype,especially when Hockey season is in play at the same time.

Bottom Line:If they traded Chris bosh,it wouldn't be as big of a deal as us trading Lebron away would be.

Compare it to the Indians trading Cliff Lee to the Phillies last season.We acknowledge that it sucked but it was our only option.

i'm really not trying to bust your balls here but how do you know JJ has pretty good value?

I just wanted to point out that the Raptors are hardly a farm team that nobody cares about. With or without Bosh they will still sell out games, people here that love basketball love that we have a team and we support that team. If the Raptors go back to the lottery who cares, they've been there for two years with Bosh so it's not like they are really in a much different position.

And yes trading LeBron and trading Bosh are two humoungously different things, Bosh is a B level star, LeBron is a AAA star. The biggest difference is that Cleveland doesn't need to save face with its fans like toronto does. Cleveland has a history of sucking, and a history of loyal fans so their fanbase will stay strong. But Toronto doesn't have those deep roots like the Cavs do and their owner isn't as loaded as Gilbert so he can't afford to have the fans mad like Gilbert can.

And every thing that I have heard about JJ says that his value is high, and the fact that for two years in a row we have almost aqcuired Amare for JJ Hickson and a bag of chips ( I think Doritos) tells me that JJs value is pretty damn high.

 

[tedginnjr]

But you see; it's not what Toronto may want at all. They don't hold the cards to play. Bosh does. He wants out. Toronto has to give him his wish, so in a sign and trade with Toronto, the receiving team for Bosh is going to make out and win in the trade. Not the other way around. It's not what we "have to" give up, but what we want to give up. If Bosh doesn't want the Cavs giving up all those rotation players, no trade will be made anyway. Bosh and LeBron aren't stupid. They know they need more than the two of them to win the title. Giving up both Andy and JJ is giving up too much.

Are you high?

 

[DougHeil]

Are you high?

No