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The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread (not coaching-related)
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CornerThree
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
If they bring in Isiah Thomas, I'm done.
If they bring in Isiah Thomas, I'm done.
DatDudeZ3
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AustinCarr
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
I would beg to differ on Zeke. Its neck and neck between him and Kahn as the worst GMs I have ever witnessed. He is awful. If you want raw talent athletes, he is your man. If you want a cohesive team which can play the sport of basketball, he is about the worst I have witnessed anywhere.
I would beg to differ on Zeke. Its neck and neck between him and Kahn as the worst GMs I have ever witnessed. He is awful. If you want raw talent athletes, he is your man. If you want a cohesive team which can play the sport of basketball, he is about the worst I have witnessed anywhere.
BimboColesHair
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
Don't think we will hire a GM. I think Griffin will be the GM and we will see a President of Ops come in who was a former successful coach.
Don't think we will hire a GM. I think Griffin will be the GM and we will see a President of Ops come in who was a former successful coach.
Kyrieville
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AustinCarr
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kovanovich
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
I am nervous about the team's future going into the off-season. Always had some level of confidence in Chris Grant. I mean, sometimes we questioned his draft picks, but I was always confident he, with the implicit backing of Gilbert, was going to be patient and wait on trades he would win. (Never have understood how he could be blamed by the national media for getting the better of most of the trades he made.) Was confident he wouldn't do anything to torpedo the rebuild. But then this year he engineered the Brown rehire and turned the keys over to Brown, which proved to be unwise. He started jumping the gun with the Jack signing (though it turns out that was Gilbert as much as anything), and the Bynum signing/Deng trade (which I was opposed to).
Obviously, the first thing that needs to be addressed is who will run the team. Some (Windy and I think Terry Pluto) have hinted that Gilbert will want to bring in a "big name," but the role of this "big name" seems to be a president of basketball operations or something like that. Not sure I am a fan of that sort of move. This "big name" will want to bring in his own GM and/or he will end up as the de facto GM himself with a nominal GM with no power or authority. There is reason to think (see Windy's reporting on the influence Riley's rings had on LeBron) Gilbert may think having such a person on board, preferably one with a championship pedigree as a player or coach, would add to the FO and would bring the franchise added credibility. I see it as having someone in charge who is weak, or at least inexperienced, on analytics, contract negotiations, capology, scouting and player evaluation. And even if this "big name" retains a GM, I think you are creating a recipe for internal FO conflicts.
Whoever is hired as GM and/or president will want to have the authority to hire his own head coach. I mean, who would be willing to be in charge unless they had this authority? Maybe you have a model where the HC and GM both report to the owner (or team president), but what GM would be interested in that model? Maybe Griffin, but maybe not. Regardless of whether Griffin is retained (as GM reporting directly to Gilbert or as GM reporting to a president), or a new GM is brought in, given what we know about Griffin (and his background in the Phoenix school), it's sort of hard for me to see how Brown is back as HC. I suppose Gilbert could say to a potential GM candidate that he wants Brown back, and that's a condition that any new GM/president would need to agree to, but again what GM, much less president, is going to agree to less than full decision-making authority?
My strong preference is an experienced front office type, whether Griffin or someone else, with full decision-making authority in charge. In terms of the coach, I am agnostic. I hate that the Cavs -- 9 years into Gilbert's ownership -- have achieved a new level of instability, and changing course by firing Brown would only further this instability. I think hiring Brown meant a 2-3 year project, and it's possible once his defensive system is fully implemented, we will start to see more significant improvement. But then again maybe we won't.
In terms of the personnel, here are some thoughts...
Assumption: Regardless of who is running this ship, the days of hoarding capspace are over, for better or worse. That being the case, the Cavs need to spend their money wisely and only acquire players on reasonable contracts. Think Danny Ferry's signing of Paul Millsap -- a solid player who can always be traded because he is worth his contract. Avoid rationalizing a bad contract. I'm afraid this is what the Cavs did with Jarrett Jack (hey, a "name" free agent is willing to sign with us, and we only had to overpay a little!).
First step: Sign LeBron.
After that fails, second step: Try to pull off a big trade for a star. You still have some assets to do it. Love is the likeliest name. There is risk involved (with his impending free agency), but maybe that will undermine Minny's bargaining position a bit.
Third step: Draft. Go for BPA, however you are defining that. Don't draft for need. If the pick falls 9-10 or lower, it could be part of the package for the "major trade." If it's in the top 3, I would be reluctant to include it in a trade. If it's 9-10 or lower, have reasonable expectations as to how much this player will contribute next year. Trading up will almost certainly be too costly, given the perceived value of the top 8 picks or so, so it's not worth really worrying about it.
Fourth step: If you make a major trade, use FA to fill gaps created in your roster. Some examples: You include Thompson as part of a hypothetical Love package, you try to sign a guy like Jordan Hill as your energy/rebounding big. Or you try to swing a trade for an undervalued big like Biyombo, who rebounds and defends the rim. Or, you include Waiters in the "major trade," and you fill his roster spot by making a push for Lance Stephenson.
Fifth step: By this point in the process, you have a pretty good idea of the contours of your team, and how much value your own free agents have for you. Right now it's impossible to say how much Spencer Hawes and Luol Deng are worth to the Cavs. But regardless you don't overpay, even if that means you lose them. You really can't obsess about the sunk costs here (that is to say, your argument can't be that we gave up picks for these guys, and that means we've got to re-sign them or else it was a waste). I'm guessing Hawes has the better chance to be back, but it's really impossible to say until we know who will be making those decisions and whether you are able to make a "major trade." Sign and trade seems to me to be a longshot.
Sixth step: If you haven't had to trade him to make the salaries work in the "major trade," exercise the option on Varejao's contract. Even if he only plays, say, 25 MPG for, say, 60 games, he's still worth $9M.
Seventh step: Assuming Step 1 didn't work, and you decide not to re-sign Deng, you need to find a starting SF. There will be options out there available via FA and trade that are cheaper (and mostly younger) than Deng, and much smaller risks (unless Deng inexplicably is willing to sign for significantly less then what everyone has been saying he is after). Here are some names: Hayward, Aminu, Jordan Hamilton, Ariza (personally, I think he is a longshot at best), Wes Johnson, Sefolosha, Francisco Garcia, Richard Jefferson, Marvin Williams. I know, a lot of those names may not sound too appealing, but the key is to get them on a good contract. I'd much rather have Hamilton for $2.5M per year than Hayward for $12M, for instance. Potential trade options include: Martell Webster, Budinger, Jared Dudley, Matt Barnes, Pondexter, Bullock, Jeremy Evans. I think all of these names could potentially be available. Each would be better than overpaying Luol Deng. In fact, you could possibly get two of them on short term deals, allowing you to upgrade next year and/or buy you some time to groom a successor (maybe this year's draft pick).
I am nervous about the team's future going into the off-season. Always had some level of confidence in Chris Grant. I mean, sometimes we questioned his draft picks, but I was always confident he, with the implicit backing of Gilbert, was going to be patient and wait on trades he would win. (Never have understood how he could be blamed by the national media for getting the better of most of the trades he made.) Was confident he wouldn't do anything to torpedo the rebuild. But then this year he engineered the Brown rehire and turned the keys over to Brown, which proved to be unwise. He started jumping the gun with the Jack signing (though it turns out that was Gilbert as much as anything), and the Bynum signing/Deng trade (which I was opposed to).
Obviously, the first thing that needs to be addressed is who will run the team. Some (Windy and I think Terry Pluto) have hinted that Gilbert will want to bring in a "big name," but the role of this "big name" seems to be a president of basketball operations or something like that. Not sure I am a fan of that sort of move. This "big name" will want to bring in his own GM and/or he will end up as the de facto GM himself with a nominal GM with no power or authority. There is reason to think (see Windy's reporting on the influence Riley's rings had on LeBron) Gilbert may think having such a person on board, preferably one with a championship pedigree as a player or coach, would add to the FO and would bring the franchise added credibility. I see it as having someone in charge who is weak, or at least inexperienced, on analytics, contract negotiations, capology, scouting and player evaluation. And even if this "big name" retains a GM, I think you are creating a recipe for internal FO conflicts.
Whoever is hired as GM and/or president will want to have the authority to hire his own head coach. I mean, who would be willing to be in charge unless they had this authority? Maybe you have a model where the HC and GM both report to the owner (or team president), but what GM would be interested in that model? Maybe Griffin, but maybe not. Regardless of whether Griffin is retained (as GM reporting directly to Gilbert or as GM reporting to a president), or a new GM is brought in, given what we know about Griffin (and his background in the Phoenix school), it's sort of hard for me to see how Brown is back as HC. I suppose Gilbert could say to a potential GM candidate that he wants Brown back, and that's a condition that any new GM/president would need to agree to, but again what GM, much less president, is going to agree to less than full decision-making authority?
My strong preference is an experienced front office type, whether Griffin or someone else, with full decision-making authority in charge. In terms of the coach, I am agnostic. I hate that the Cavs -- 9 years into Gilbert's ownership -- have achieved a new level of instability, and changing course by firing Brown would only further this instability. I think hiring Brown meant a 2-3 year project, and it's possible once his defensive system is fully implemented, we will start to see more significant improvement. But then again maybe we won't.
In terms of the personnel, here are some thoughts...
Assumption: Regardless of who is running this ship, the days of hoarding capspace are over, for better or worse. That being the case, the Cavs need to spend their money wisely and only acquire players on reasonable contracts. Think Danny Ferry's signing of Paul Millsap -- a solid player who can always be traded because he is worth his contract. Avoid rationalizing a bad contract. I'm afraid this is what the Cavs did with Jarrett Jack (hey, a "name" free agent is willing to sign with us, and we only had to overpay a little!).
First step: Sign LeBron.
After that fails, second step: Try to pull off a big trade for a star. You still have some assets to do it. Love is the likeliest name. There is risk involved (with his impending free agency), but maybe that will undermine Minny's bargaining position a bit.
Third step: Draft. Go for BPA, however you are defining that. Don't draft for need. If the pick falls 9-10 or lower, it could be part of the package for the "major trade." If it's in the top 3, I would be reluctant to include it in a trade. If it's 9-10 or lower, have reasonable expectations as to how much this player will contribute next year. Trading up will almost certainly be too costly, given the perceived value of the top 8 picks or so, so it's not worth really worrying about it.
Fourth step: If you make a major trade, use FA to fill gaps created in your roster. Some examples: You include Thompson as part of a hypothetical Love package, you try to sign a guy like Jordan Hill as your energy/rebounding big. Or you try to swing a trade for an undervalued big like Biyombo, who rebounds and defends the rim. Or, you include Waiters in the "major trade," and you fill his roster spot by making a push for Lance Stephenson.
Fifth step: By this point in the process, you have a pretty good idea of the contours of your team, and how much value your own free agents have for you. Right now it's impossible to say how much Spencer Hawes and Luol Deng are worth to the Cavs. But regardless you don't overpay, even if that means you lose them. You really can't obsess about the sunk costs here (that is to say, your argument can't be that we gave up picks for these guys, and that means we've got to re-sign them or else it was a waste). I'm guessing Hawes has the better chance to be back, but it's really impossible to say until we know who will be making those decisions and whether you are able to make a "major trade." Sign and trade seems to me to be a longshot.
Sixth step: If you haven't had to trade him to make the salaries work in the "major trade," exercise the option on Varejao's contract. Even if he only plays, say, 25 MPG for, say, 60 games, he's still worth $9M.
Seventh step: Assuming Step 1 didn't work, and you decide not to re-sign Deng, you need to find a starting SF. There will be options out there available via FA and trade that are cheaper (and mostly younger) than Deng, and much smaller risks (unless Deng inexplicably is willing to sign for significantly less then what everyone has been saying he is after). Here are some names: Hayward, Aminu, Jordan Hamilton, Ariza (personally, I think he is a longshot at best), Wes Johnson, Sefolosha, Francisco Garcia, Richard Jefferson, Marvin Williams. I know, a lot of those names may not sound too appealing, but the key is to get them on a good contract. I'd much rather have Hamilton for $2.5M per year than Hayward for $12M, for instance. Potential trade options include: Martell Webster, Budinger, Jared Dudley, Matt Barnes, Pondexter, Bullock, Jeremy Evans. I think all of these names could potentially be available. Each would be better than overpaying Luol Deng. In fact, you could possibly get two of them on short term deals, allowing you to upgrade next year and/or buy you some time to groom a successor (maybe this year's draft pick).
mhi
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
Experience at the position. For Thomas specifically, former Hall of Fame player, coach, and executive in the league. Great eye for talent (we're gonna need it since we won't be drafting in the top5 any longer) as well as a decade's worth of experience executing trades and signing free agents.
We need this sort of GM to pair with Mike Brown and Dan Gilbert.
Experience at the position. For Thomas specifically, former Hall of Fame player, coach, and executive in the league. Great eye for talent (we're gonna need it since we won't be drafting in the top5 any longer) as well as a decade's worth of experience executing trades and signing free agents.
We need this sort of GM to pair with Mike Brown and Dan Gilbert.
gratefuldead
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Re: The 2014 Cavs Off-Season Thread
Pay kevin Ollie to coach, billups as an assistant
Pay kevin Ollie to coach, billups as an assistant
Kyrieville
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