Trade Deadline 2014 (discussion)

[synekec]

Are people really so dense that they don't see the value of 2nd round draft picks? Look around the league. Many key role players on teams come from the 2nd round.

And we just gave up 2 for 27 games of Spencer Hawes. We probably won't extend him either due to the fact that some team will no doubt overpay for him.

Overall, not a bad deal, but definitely nothing to be ecstatic about.

Relax man, The D-League has made 2nd rounders obsolete. The Cavs enough young talent on this roster. They need impact role players and had a serious gap at Center.

 

[Rich]

There are a handful of "key" contributors around the league taken in the second round from the past 10 drafts. People talk about Chandler Parson and another 8-10 guys, but neglect to mention its a limited number of guys taken from 300 second round picks in the last 10 years.

Also, until this summer passes, people need to stop referring to Hawes and Deng as rentals. It may bear out that way, but its just as likely that we re-sign or S&T one or both of them for other players/picks. So until both of them walk for nothing, they are not rentals and should not be referred to as such when trying to denigrate the value of the trades.

Can I ask you who is doing a SnT for Hawes? That's very unlikely. He isn't going to command a big number, most teams that want him will jsut be able to sign him outright w/o giving up anything in the deal.

 

[Rich]

Relax man, The D-League has made 2nd rounders obsolete. The Cavs enough young talent on this roster. They need impact role players and had a serious gap at Center.

Hawes is the 2nd, and very well might be the 3rd best Center on this team. We didn't upgrade the position.

 

[Mr. MacPhisto]

It's official, we keep the Orlando 2nd and send our own 2nd and Memphis' (which is actually the Sixers' own 2nd rounder, or at least that's what it looks like).

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/cavs-acquire-hawes-140220

Orlando's pick should be top 5 in the second (right now it would be #3).

 

[MirORich]

Can I ask you who is doing a SnT for Hawes? That's very unlikely. He isn't going to command a big number, most teams that want him will jsut be able to sign him outright w/o giving up anything in the deal.

You don't need to command a big salary or be a star player to be signed and traded. My point is that as far as both Hawes and Deng go, we have to consider how they affect the team this year and we also have to let the offseason play out before simply calling them "rentals"

 

[texascavsfan]

It's kind of like the Kyrie syndrome (from a month ago). The ability to hit 3's is great but if you're giving up more points than you score then it is all for nothing. Worst case scenario is we just gave up 2 2nd rounders for a 2nd round type of player and that's not a good scenario.

My hope is that he gets his act together on the defensive side of things as he will now be in a defensive dominant system. We'll just have to wait and see.

Hmmm, the 10th pick in the 2007 draft who is a somewhat known quantity for (2) unknown 2nd rounders, a D-Leaguer and Earl Friggin Clark.... I'll take that!

 

[czvo]

The fact of the matter is 2nd round picks seldom work out in the long run, but they're still an unknown, which allows people to attribute whatever value they want to them. For every Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson, there are a dozen Josh Selbys. The Cavs gave up two lottery tickets for a known quantity. I'm not the biggest Spencer Hawes fan, but if a second round pick ever achieves the numbers he does, that player is considered a success. The 27 games part is unsettling, but we're arguing about 2nd round picks. Can we stop worrying about the future for two seconds and just enjoy the team on the floor?

 

["Boobie" Gibson]

It's not a losers mentality to look and say "I'm not sure if 27 games of Spencer Hawes is worth two 2nd round picks."

Let me just throw this at you, Pacers just trade Danny Grangers expiring for Evan Turn, Lavoy Allen, and 1 second rounder. Evan Turn is at least a restricted free agent at the end of the year. The Pacers are also trying to win a title right now. That's an "all-in" type of move.

Now compare that to what we did.

Is this serious? The Pacers got a great deal. I don't know how you can knock what the Cavs did based on the Pacers getting a great deal.

 

[MirORich]

This is what you do with a surplus. Trade for guys like Deng and Hawes who could help the team in the present, potentially re-sign and help in the future, or potentially be involved in S&T for other future players/picks. Those three rewards all far outweigh the risk of losing both of them for three middle to end of the round 2nd rounders when you still have so many other picks:

We still have Orlando's 2nd round pick in this draft and all our own future 2nds.

In addition to the actually important Heat pick, Memphis pick, and all our future 1sts.

 

[Cashius X]

The problem some people have, including myself, is that we just gave up 2 2nd round picks for essentially nothing. Tyler Zeller already provides what Spencer Hawes brings to the table minus a couple more feet of floor spacing. Moreover, from what we hear Hawes is an even worse defender and doesn't always give maximum effort. We're getting marginally better at the expense of 2 2nd rounders.

Now if Andy's injury is more serious than we're being led to believe I like this deal a lot more as it strengthens our now depleted front court. However if Andy isn't seriously injured and he returns in the next couple games Hawes will push Zeller out of the rotation which essentially means, as I've stated before, we gave up 2 2nd rounders for a slightly better version of Tyler Zeller, whom we already have under contract for a couple more years. My arguemt is, why trade for Hawes when we already have Tyler Zeller who does the exact same thing?

I don't mean to sound so pessimistic but I just can't get overly excited for a deal like this.

 

[Los216]

The problem some people have, including myself, is that we just gave up 2 2nd round picks for essentially nothing. Tyler Zeller already provides what Spencer Hawes brings to the table minus a couple more feet of floor spacing. Moreover, from what we hear Hawes is an even worse defender and doesn't always give maximum effort. We're getting marginally better at the expense of 2 2nd rounders.

Now if Andy's injury is more serious than we're being led to believe I like this deal a lot more as it strengthens our now depleted front court. However if Andy isn't seriously injured and he returns in the next couple games Hawes will push Zeller out of the rotation which essentially means, as I've stated before, we gave up 2 2nd rounders for a slightly better version of Tyler Zeller, whom we already have under contract for a couple more years. My arguemt is, why trade for Hawes when we already have Tyler Zeller who does the exact same thing?

I don't mean to sound so pessimistic but I just can't get overly excited for a deal like this.

Those extra feet of floor spacing are 3 pointers btw

Also Hawse is a better on the boards than Zeller and he's already our leading shot blocker before suiting up Friday

Oh and we started today with three 2nd round picks now we have one like every other team in the league except ours may end up being the highest due to it being from Orlando

 

[Rich]

Is this serious? The Pacers got a great deal. I don't know how you can knock what the Cavs did based on the Pacers getting a great deal.

It's not hard to understand.

The Pacers got more for less. That makes our deal not as good.....

 

[Rich]

The fact of the matter is 2nd round picks seldom work out in the long run, but they're still an unknown, which allows people to attribute whatever value they want to them. For every Chandler Parsons or Lance Stephenson, there are a dozen Josh Selbys. The Cavs gave up two lottery tickets for a known quantity. I'm not the biggest Spencer Hawes fan, but if a second round pick ever achieves the numbers he does, that player is considered a success. The 27 games part is unsettling, but we're arguing about 2nd round picks. Can we stop worrying about the future for two seconds and just enjoy the team on the floor?

Yea well this is the other problem. One way or another, he's cutting into someone's minutes he probably doesn't deserve to be cutting into. Whether it's Zeller or Bennett. That's not good for the long-term, and I'm not even sure it's good for the short-term.

And we always do this with a new player. We play up his strengths and ignore the weaknesses to a fault. Earl Clark was gonna be the guy who was really long and could shoot 3s!!! Until he wasn't. Until all of his other weaknesses were so apparent and harmful that whatever little value those first two things brought to the table were totally overrun by all the negative things

So it will be with Spencer Hawes. There is a good reason he was HATED by the Philly and Sacramento fan bases. All the other shit that he does/doesn't do on the court after being really tall and shooting 3s.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

Zeller was just starting to find his grove, and here comes Dumby Griffin to come fuck everything up.

Hate the trade we made. Hate. hate. hate.

Spencer Hawes will have 0 positive impact on this team going forward.

Dumb ass trade all around, for all that - I wouldn't have minded watching Clark rot on the bench..

 

[Kizzle]

I cant believe all this hooplah about 2 2nd round picks. People are acting like we traded away Ginobili and Parson awya for Hawes. Get over it people. Players like that are NOT the norm. Ginobili may be the best 2nd rounder in the modern NBA and Parson's is just a lucky pick by Houston. You cant demean the FO for not holding out hope on landing a 2% talent. We took a sure thing who will help our team. If he goes ok whatever hes declined this year its not like he'll be heavily coveted. If he shows good here, we are probably his best bet to get decent money.





Our second rounders over the last decade have been crap. Lets stop acting like we gave up on Ginobili