• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

Trading Kyrie Irving?

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

It's a very lop-sided deal in our favor. That is almost a sure thing they'll end up in the lottery again next year.

This time last year you would've said that about the Bobcats, right?

The supporting cast thing was the LeBron excuse, and it actually had merit because LeBron was playing like a superstar.

When Kyrie starts playing up to his maximum potential and still isn't good enough, then I'll really blame the supporting cast (although I do already). But as long as he keeps having back-to-back games like he just had, he deserves the blame along with everyone else.

Give him a break...he's giving plenty of effort and the talent is clearly there, but it's not easy to adjust to playing a new position. If we really want to turn Kyrie into a SG (which, for the record, I think is an unbelievably stupid thing to do) we're going to have to recognize that there's a learning curve there.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

If the Cavs made that trade they would be crucified by the majority of the fanbase. Most people wouldn't see the value of that pick and would go crazy. I know that shouldn't matter but PR is a huge part of sports and that would really piss a lot of people off.

I'm not sure where I stand on the trade, it's very risky but the reward is high as well. Especially is Giannis continues to improve. But regardless of whether it's a good trade or not, I think something very drastic will have to happen before Kyrie gets traded.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

Maybe I read that trade wrong, but we get Giannis, a future first (which would probably be late teens/early 20's if it's 2016), and a bunch of roleplayers. How does that make any sense for the Cavs? We give up a proven star-level talent for a maybe star-level talent and a handful of nickle and dime type players?

I think you read that wrong, but it's been covered.

Oh, sweet. Lets just trade Kyrie and throw some dice. :thumbup:

Well...we are talking about a... hypothetical trade that Milwaukee's probably never going to offer here so...yeah, let's throw some hypothetical dice.

EXACTLY.

No chance you draft Hasheem Thabeet, I suppose. :dunno:

:rolleyes:

If, with the #1 pick in the draft, a GM takes a Hasheem Thabeet level bus when Embiid, Parker Wiggins and even Randle are available then he deserves to be run out of town. Of course there's a chance it happens. But why make that trade, hypothetically after the draft order has been determined, if you're not all but certain the guy you're taking is going to be on Kyrie's level- or close- rather quickly?

When you give yourself a #1 pick followed by an unprotected lottery pick and a guy that appears to have a very high ceiling...it's certainly worth considering...hypothetically...on a message board...that has no impact on the Cavs GM's decision making.

As Surge points out and I'm sure you would as well, a big part of the issue here would be what Mike Brown could do with any of these players. Because Kyrie certainly looked fine before Mike got ahold of him. Who knows WTF he'd do with Embiid, Parker, Wiggins or Randle.

Also, it would've been cool if, you know, Cauley-Stein/Nash declared for the draft last year....

I don't know what this means or how it relates.

It I would take Jabari or Embiid for Kyrie straight up right now.

THIS I would not do. The reason I liked that proposed trade that would never happen is because the Cavs would be getting one of those guys, plus a very strong prospect, plus another pick. There's no guarantee Jabari or Embiid are better than Kyrie, but there's an awfully strong chance that the combination of one of them + Giannis + another presumably high pick beat Kyrie by himself to hell.


If the Cavs made that trade they would be crucified by the majority of the fanbase. Most people wouldn't see the value of that pick and would go crazy. I know that shouldn't matter but PR is a huge part of sports and that would really piss a lot of people off.

Depends what they got for him. Think you'd be surprised how many people are irked by Kyrie at the moment.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

And the fact that this thread changed tones solely based on his performance in the goddamn All Star team remains so silly. Kid has gone 2-2 since that game and looked putrid in two of those games. Why was that All Star performance supposed to mean any more than all the games prior to it or 2/4 immediately after?

Such a weird premise from the beginning.

With that said, winning an ASG MVP is pretty good company considering that pretty much everyone that's won ASG MVP is in the HOF. Apparent exceptions appear to be Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice and Tom Chambers. I assume at least 1 of the 3 will make it, maybe even 2.
 
Last edited:
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

It's not trading Kyrie for a Giannis and a future first. The assumption is that the Cavs would get the Bucks unprotected picks this year (top 3) and next year. I would do that without hesitation. I would take Jabari or Embiid for Kyrie straight up right now.

Side note: I don't wish for injury upon Kyrie, but I would love to see the team with Kyrie out and Dion healthy. We are seeing it now with Dion out and Kyrie healthy, and the team is an embarrassment again. Would love to see if the Cavs are worse, the same, or even better.

It won't be much different if Waiters is thrown out there with Jarrett Jack and Tristan Thompson. What I'd like to see is Dion on the floor with Kyrie more than 10 minutes a game, and those two out there with Deng, Bennett, and Hawes for extended minutes. If Brown could get that group to play decent defense, even he couldn't fuck up the offense.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

And for the record I would still trade Irving for Embiid or possibly Wiggins, just because their ceilings are higher than Kyrie's, but I'm not looking to trade him right now, I'm actually somewhat pleased with how he is playing.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

You know, it's shit like this why LeBron left.

WE ARE CLEVELAND. Not a major market flashy team. You all sit in here and want to trade one of the most talented players in the NBA, who is respected on a national level, 3 years into his NBA career. So what? We trade Kyrie for a top pick and get Emiid? Then what? You have about 6 post players, Dion, and Jarret fucking Jack. All led by Mike Brown. See what Mike Brown did with Bynum and Gasol? Yeah, that worked out. Why not keep our elite player, get some capable scorers, and do what we've always wanted to do with the team we built from the bottom, struggled with, wanted to give up on, and then hopefully finally figure it out. Kyrie plays his best when he is surrounded with capable shooters and scorers (Melo, LeBron in the all star game) not saying we will land a guy of that caliber. But, we don't have a single person on this team that Kyrie can use his handles to get open and have confidence that he'll knock down the open shot. This has happened multiple times over the past few games. Quit not being satisfied with the players we have acquired on this team. Look at the Bobcats for love of god. THEY HAD THE WORST RECORD IN NBA HISTORY in 2012 at 7-59. Kemba Walker is not even on the same planet as Kyrie but they've brought in Al Jefferson and look where they are now, in the playoff hunt in the East with a current seed. We just need 1 more piece and a shooter.

Us as fans really need to stop giving up on our star player like this. He isn't Browns quarterback. He isn't LeBron James. He's Kyrie Irving, and he's a pretty damn good point guard and leader of our team.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

You know, it's shit like this why LeBron left.

Complete bullshit.

Yeah, a couple of guys who called out poor play on a Cavs site (a respected one, don't get me wrong) made LeBron leave. That makes complete sense considering no one ever called LeBron out for poor play game in and game out. While Bron was chasing down blocks on fast breaks, we were ragging on him for his poor effort, inconsistent scoring ability, and overall poor leadership out there on the floor during the regular season. Goddamn his back to back 60 plus win seasons. :rolleyes:

This is nothing like LeBron and if anything this might be one of if not the most disappointing future "star" season in Cleveland history. It's bordering Trent Richardson territory if not even worse.

You can't put your entire franchise's future on an undersized and defensively deficient point guard who can't consistently perform at a high level. These things aren't taught. Kyrie is not LeBron and you have to ask yourself if he's even worth the max contract he demands. It's completely rational to question these things because this will literally tie the organization up for the next decade.

What we've seen so far does not warrant a max contract and we should sell while his stock is high (all star MVP) and let bygones be bygones.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

Complete bullshit.

Yeah, a couple of guys who called out poor play on a Cavs site (a respected one, don't get me wrong) made LeBron leave. That makes complete sense considering no one ever called LeBron out for poor play game in and game out. While Bron was chasing down blocks on fast breaks, we were ragging on him for his poor effort, inconsistent scoring ability, and overall poor leadership out there on the floor during the regular season. Goddamn his back to back 60 plus win seasons. :rolleyes:

This is nothing like LeBron and if anything this might be one of if not the most disappointing future "star" season in Cleveland history. It's bordering Trent Richardson territory if not even worse.

You can't put your entire franchise's future on an undersized and defensively deficient point guard who can't consistently perform at a high level. These things aren't taught. Kyrie is not LeBron and you have to ask yourself if he's even worth the max contract he demands. It's completely rational to question these things because this will literally tie the organization up for the next decade.

What we've seen so far does not warrant a max contract and we should sell while his stock is high (all star MVP) and let bygones be bygones.

With the exception of the final Celtics series, I've never questioned LeBron's effort. He played his ass off for us. I can't say the same for Irving.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

Complete bullshit.

Yeah, a couple of guys who called out poor play on a Cavs site (a respected one, don't get me wrong) made LeBron leave. That makes complete sense considering no one ever called LeBron out for poor play game in and game out. While Bron was chasing down blocks on fast breaks, we were ragging on him for his poor effort, inconsistent scoring ability, and overall poor leadership out there on the floor during the regular season. Goddamn his back to back 60 plus win seasons. :rolleyes:

This is nothing like LeBron and if anything this might be one of if not the most disappointing future "star" season in Cleveland history. It's bordering Trent Richardson territory if not even worse.

You can't put your entire franchise's future on an undersized and defensively deficient point guard who can't consistently perform at a high level. These things aren't taught. Kyrie is not LeBron and you have to ask yourself if he's even worth the max contract he demands. It's completely rational to question these things because this will literally tie the organization up for the next decade.

What we've seen so far does not warrant a max contract and we should sell while his stock is high (all star MVP) and let bygones be bygones.

I agree with everything except the Trent Richardson stuff, and I disagree with that to a crazy level. I highly doubt you even believe he's as much of a disappointment as Trent and asdume that was hyperbole.

Any argument to the contrary is going to have to require some serious spinning.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

Complete bullshit.

Yeah, a couple of guys who called out poor play on a Cavs site (a respected one, don't get me wrong) made LeBron leave. That makes complete sense considering no one ever called LeBron out for poor play game in and game out. While Bron was chasing down blocks on fast breaks, we were ragging on him for his poor effort, inconsistent scoring ability, and overall poor leadership out there on the floor during the regular season. Goddamn his back to back 60 plus win seasons. :rolleyes:

This is nothing like LeBron and if anything this might be one of if not the most disappointing future "star" season in Cleveland history. It's bordering Trent Richardson territory if not even worse.

You can't put your entire franchise's future on an undersized and defensively deficient point guard who can't consistently perform at a high level. These things aren't taught. Kyrie is not LeBron and you have to ask yourself if he's even worth the max contract he demands. It's completely rational to question these things because this will literally tie the organization up for the next decade.

What we've seen so far does not warrant a max contract and we should sell while his stock is high (all star MVP) and let bygones be bygones.

I thanked you for the first paragraph about LeBron leaving, but I basically disagree with the rest. First off, Kyrie is not undersized for the point guard position. At 6'3", he's actually one of the bigger point guards in the league. Second, Kyrie has certainly shown he has the talent to be a max player. I don't think anyone here is certain he'll ever put it all together and be worth a max deal, but I don't really understand how his talent level is up for debate.

That said, I don't think he's untouchable like some people on this board seem to. It would take quite a haul to make it worth trading him, though, and taking a stance that we absolutely need to trade him is ridiculous to me.

As a reminder, John Wall got a max deal last year when he wasn't even remotely playing like a guy who deserved one. He's looking like he was worth it this year, but when he signed that deal last year there was no guarantee he'd live up to it. Hopefully Kyrie follows that similar trend, because he's absolutely getting offered a max this summer unless another team offers us a ridiculous package for him.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

I don't know what this means or how it relates.

It means, there's absolutely no guarantee that Jabari, Embiid or Randle will be in the draft. Trading Kyrie at the deadline leaves you vulnerable to having your top prospects go back to NCAA, like what happened last year. This is becoming more and more a reality as guys like MKG, Bennett and Beasley show that they're not ready for the NBA game when so young. For guys like MKG and Beasley, it is a wasted career and, in the future, kids are going to remain in school more and more if they're not ready.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

Could the Cavaliers lose Kyrie Irving?
Four years after LeBron James fled, Cleveland is at a crossroads with its new star
Updated: February 25, 2014, 1:01 PM ET
By Brian Windhorst

Kingdom come? After less than three seasons in Cleveland, Kyrie Irving is facing his own big decision.
If Kyrie Irving truly wants to be on a different team next season he can probably make it happen.

The Cleveland Cavaliers will offer Irving a maximum contract extension once they're allowed to on July 1, and if he hasn't signed it by October, the team will likely be forced to trade him before the Oct. 31 deadline for third-year players to extend their contracts.

The Cavs aren't without leverage. They can match any deal offered if Irving hits restricted free agency in the summer of 2015, and they control his rights through summer 2016. Waiting out that period would cost Irving millions, not to mention open himself up to losing it all should some unforeseen major injury occur. For these reasons, no player in Irving's position has ever declined to a sign a maximum contract offer.

But the scars of LeBron James' departure four years ago are far from healed, and they're certainly going to affect the way the club and its current star player handle their future together.

After losing James to Miami in 2010, having a franchise player who doesn't commit long term will not be tolerated by the Cavs. Team owner Dan Gilbert already has said as much publicly and the fan base has largely supported him, just as it did upon his release of the now-infamous letter trashing James soon after his decision to leave.



But that letter harmed the franchise in the eyes of many more. If the Cavs do take a hard-line position with Irving, he could wind up using such stains on the team's recent history against them.

Such a negotiating tactic would most certainly come at a cost for Irving -- it probably would badly damage his popularity, costing him endorsement opportunities and beaucoup bucks. And it'd officially end the extended honeymoon he has enjoyed in Cleveland, putting the spotlight directly on the shortcomings in his game that the national exposure helps to cover up.

Which is why Irving will probably sign a contract offer from the Cavs in some form and anything else would end up as a negotiating ploy. But by making the franchise sweat it out this summer -- the seeds such a strategy having already been planted -- he may be able to get a more favorable contract than the Cavs would prefer to give.

Irving is among the NBA's most popular players. Those "Uncle Drew" spots that Pepsi created for him made him a YouTube hit. His wizardry with the ball in his hands and all the last-second shots make for quite the attractive in-game package. Irving was even named an All-Star starter this season -- the third player in Cavs history to do so, along with James and Shawn Kemp -- though the field was thinned out by injuries to Derrick Rose and Rajon Rondo.

But despite winning MVP honors in New Orleans this year, and the 3-point shootout crown at All-Star Weekend the year before, Irving has struggled to reach the same type of success with the Cavs. In his three seasons, the 21-year-old has spent a total of five days above .500, none of them coming after the second week of the season. That's more a reflection on his team, but it goes to show what Irving, who is currently ranked ninth among point guards in player efficiency rating at 20.04, has overcome to get uncommon national popularity in a small market like Cleveland.

There are those who even wonder whether Irving is truly worth a maximum-level contract, including some within the Cavs organization. His game has regressed a bit this season, particularly from a leadership standpoint, with his clashes with Dion Waiters making headlines, and it has raised a red flag or two in-house.

And while Irving has said all the right things about staying put in public, it's no secret that Irving's camp has been making it known for years now the point guard would like to be elsewhere long term. No matter how much he denies it.

Irving's Options

Which way will he go? We breas down the different paths Kyrie Irving can take. Amin Elhassan Insider

Just how strongly Irving feels about it could rise to the forefront soon. Though the Cavs recently went on a six-game win streak, their schedule the rest of the season is brutal. In March, Cleveland, now 22-35 and five games out of a spot in the postseason, plays the Grizzlies, Spurs, Clippers, Suns, Warriors, Heat, Thunder, Rockets, Raptors and Pacers.

The season may be another lost one for Irving and the Cavs, which means the clock on his impending decision will likely begin sooner than later.

More than likely, Irving will use his tenuous position to work favorable options into a new contract. A big one will be an escalator clause, which would create what is known as a "supermax." Also referred to as the Rose Rule, players who sign max contracts can get a bump of about $3 million per season if they make two All-NBA teams, win the MVP or get voted in to start two All-Star Games by the time the extensions kick in after their fourth season. Rose got it for winning the MVP. Blake Griffin was voted into two All-Star Games and also made two All-NBA teams. Paul George is likely to qualify for it this season, when he gets his second All-NBA team nod.

Irving has never made an All-NBA team, and he's unlikely to do so this season. But his popularity can't be denied, so those All-Star bids could wind up earning him tens of millions.

Despite it all, the Cavs, like most teams, will likely want to lock up Irving for the full five years they are allowed and make him their "designated player." But Irving might be able to leverage a shorter, more player-friendly contract with opt-out clauses.

Just signing him will lead to exhaling in Cleveland, as it did in 2006, when James signed his own extension with the team. That, though, proved to be the beginning of the end of that superstar's tenure with the Cavs, as James passed up a six-year offer for a three-year extension.

If they can't somehow work things out, Irving could find himself somewhere James never did in his seven seasons in Cleveland: the trade market.
 
Re: Look at Jackasses Who Said, "Trade Kyrie Irving"

It means, there's absolutely no guarantee that Jabari, Embiid or Randle will be in the draft. Trading Kyrie at the deadline leaves you vulnerable to having your top prospects go back to NCAA, like what happened last year. This is becoming more and more a reality as guys like MKG, Bennett and Beasley show that they're not ready for the NBA game when so young. For guys like MKG and Beasley, it is a wasted career and, in the future, kids are going to remain in school more and more if they're not ready.

Agreed.

But in our fantasy scenario here the move occurs on draft day. At that point you know who's in it. As for the pick the next year...that's a whole different story and I 100% agree it's a crapshoot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-14: "Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:14: " Time for Playoff Vengeance on Mickey."
Top